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Old 11-29-2014, 09:36 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Sodium Thiosulphate

Why hasn't anyone mentioned before that we can make our own dechlorinator super cheap?

http://www.kensfish.com/aquarium-sup...iosulfate.html


It's backed up by Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloram...um_thiosulfate
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Old 11-30-2014, 05:46 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sodium Thiosulphate

I used this back in the old pre-chloramine days and did not know it would work on chloramines
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Old 11-30-2014, 07:51 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sodium Thiosulphate

Hi MacFan,

+1 for Michael's comment, sodium thiosulfate does not remove chloramines that are being used by many water utilities today. It also changes the PH of the water. The original Water-Rite product (now changed) used for decades during the 1950's, 60's and 70's by hobbyists was basically a buffered sodium thiosulfate product (because sodium thiosulfate can change water PH). As utilities had more difficulty killing the bacteria in our water supplies they started adding chloramines in addition to chlorine.

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Chloramine is a chemical used to disinfect water. It is ammonia (NH3) bonded to chlorine. It resists breaking down and is used because of its stability in water. Sodium thiosulfate on its own, can be used to remove the chlorine, but when used alone ammonia is left over. The toxicity of ammonia will depends on a few factors. This article should help you decide the best course of action in your situation. Ammonia is not toxic at a pH below 7.0. This happens because in acid conditions, free hydrogen ions convert it to ammonium NH4. As pH rises above 7.0, these hydrogen ions are less available, leaving more toxic ammonia (NH3).
I used Water-Rite back in the day (I'm in my 60's), now I use Seachem Prime. it removes both chlorine and chloramines and chemically binds any ammonia making it non-toxic to my fish. Two drops per gallon (5 ml / 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons) is all it takes.

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PrimeŽ also contains a binder which renders ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate non-toxic. It is very important to understand how those two functions work together. All dechlorinators operate through a chemical process known as reduction. In this process, toxic dissolved chlorine gas (Cl2) is converted into non-toxic chloride ions (Cl-). The reduction process also breaks the bonds between chlorine and nitrogen atoms in the chloramine molecule (NH2Cl), freeing the chlorine atoms and replacing them with hydrogen (H) to create ammonia (NH3). Typically, dechlorinators stop there, leaving an aquarium full of toxic ammonia! Seachem takes the necessary next step by including an ammonia binder to detoxify the ammonia produced in the reduction process.
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Old 12-01-2014, 10:38 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sodium Thiosulphate

According to Wikipedia, it works on chloramines. And I can't imagine that such a tiny amount would meaningfully change the PH. I ordered some, so I guess we'll see...
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Old 12-03-2014, 08:13 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sodium Thiosulphate

If I recall, it works to dechlorinate, reducing the chloramine's covalently bonded chlorine into the ion chloride. However I don't believe it does anything to bind the ammonia. Which may or may not be a problem depending on your pH.

EDIT: I did some quick math... if your water has 4ppm of Chloramine (max permitted), and you use Sodium Thiosulfate, then you're potentially left with 1.3ppm of Ammonia. In a 25% water change this becomes only 0.325ppm of ammonia. Even a larger 50% water change you should only have about 0.65ppm. To top it off, if your pH is below 7 it's likely to all convert to ammonium and not be a real problem at all.
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Old 12-03-2014, 09:06 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sodium Thiosulphate

I imagine it would be fine in a planted tank with a good pH for the reasons already stated by Tugg. I've been using Seachem's Aquavitro Premier with good results and it also adds some potassium. Here's what the Aquavitro website says about it....

"Description
premier™ is a conditioner specifically designed for the planted aquarium. It removes chlorine and chloramines while adding potassium. premier™ is non-acidic and will not impact pH. Use at start-up and whenever adding or replacing water.

premier™ is a concentrated solution of potassium thiosulfate which removes both chlorine and chloramines. Although a thiosulfate-based conditioner is not recommended for saltwater aquaria because of the ammonia produced when it reacts with chloramines, it is perfect for the planted aquarium. The ammonia produced from chloramine by premier™ is predominantly in the ammonium form, and is thus rapidly scavenged by plants*. It also serves as a minor source of potassium.

*John P. Grazek, in Aquariology: Fish Diseases and Water Chemistry, Tetra Press, 1992"
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Old 12-03-2014, 09:22 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sodium Thiosulphate

I used Nova Aqua Plus for years which eliminated chloramines but not ammonia. This was fine until the summer when the water company started putting ammonia in the water. I never noticed these small amounts of ammonia but I know people who had problems with certain sensitive fish. So the first problem is as always the actual water you use and what is in it. Some people argue that ammonia will also create problems for certain sensitive plants. I am not sure that is much of a problem in aquariums without a large fish load.

To be on the safe side it seems it is preferable to add something that will detoxify the ammonia and the chloramines. There doesn’t seem to be any harm in that and there are plenty of products that one can use.
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Old 12-03-2014, 12:37 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sodium Thiosulphate

Plus ammonia is a plant nutrient and I also have established bacteria colonies that should convert it to nitrites and then to nitrates. Chloramine is created by adding ammonia to chlorinated water.
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Old 12-03-2014, 07:00 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sodium Thiosulphate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattle_Aquarist View Post
I used Water-Rite back in the day (I'm in my 60's), now I use Seachem Prime. it removes both chlorine and chloramines and chemically binds any ammonia making it non-toxic to my fish. Two drops per gallon (5 ml / 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons) is all it takes.
Opps! Sorry all 5 ml / 1 tsp of Seachem Prime treats 50 gallons. -Roy
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Old 01-25-2015, 08:09 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sodium Thiosulphate

Does this smell like prime when in liquid form?
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