Struggling with Gh fertilization. - El Natural - Aquatic Plant Central

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Old 10-23-2019, 08:39 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Struggling with Gh fertilization.

Im using 100% RO water.
2 YEAR OLD Aquasoil substrate
Current water parameters:-

pH - 7.6
GH - 1 dGH
Ca:Mg - 4:1 (Only during Water change day using CaSO4 & MgSO4 on replacement water volume)
KH - ~0
Pressurized CO2 at 4 bps.
Tank water + Sump = 440 Liters.
Tank dimension : 4x1.5x2.5 ft ( LxDxH )
Weekly 25% water change.
Light: 220w, 20000 Lumen at 4000K

Weekly Dosing:

Nitrate - 40 ppm
Phosphate - 2 ppm
Potassium - 30-35 ppm
Plantex CSM - 0.1 ppm registered on Iron

Some plants are stunted, tiny leaves and almost 0 growth tops.
Suffering plants are Rotala Rotundifolia, Ammannia Senegalensis and Gracilis and Alternanthera Reineckii Mini.

While most of the other plants like Limnophila, Ludwigia, Undulutus, Bacopa and Glosso are all fine and no signs of stunting. Few other plants are even showing red coloration like Ludwigia Glandulosa.

How can i get rid of these tiny leaves and stunted tops ?

Is it something related to GH? because i use almost EI dosing regime so i expect it shouldn't be NPK and micro deficiency..

Is it necessary to add Potassium while making GH mix ? I just do 1:4 Ca (4)and Mg (1) salt mix before adding to RO Water. Nilocg uses 1:3:3 Ratio while Seachem uses 1:4:8 Ratio.

Is it necessary to be K ppm higher than Calcium and Magnesium ppm ?


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Old 10-23-2019, 08:59 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Struggling with Gh fertilization.

A lot of aqua-soils buffer your KH down to 1dKH and keep your pH on the acidic side.

It is best to use a 10ml test tube - that doubles the resolution. 1 drop = 0.5 degree. You may have 1 dKH.

You will probably need to bring your GH up. 3-4 dGH is typical depending on the kind of shrimp / fauna you keep. I use the GLA GH booster which is based on Tom Barr's recipe (Mr. EI). You can also find it on the Barr report forum.

This is a good overview of the topic:

https://www.advancedplantedtank.com/ph-kh-gh-tds.html

You will want to bring up your GH & KH slowly. I would just treat the replacement water and do slow water changes to give your fauna time to acclimate.
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Old 10-23-2019, 09:16 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Struggling with Gh fertilization.

Quote:
Originally Posted by comewithme07 View Post
Im using 100% RO water.
2 YEAR OLD Aquasoil substrate
Current water parameters:-

pH - 7.6
GH - 1 dGH
Ca:Mg - 4:1 (Only during Water change day using CaSO4 & MgSO4 on replacement water volume)
KH - ~0
Pressurized CO2 at 4 bps.
Tank water + Sump = 440 Liters.
Tank dimension : 4x1.5x2.5 ft ( LxDxH )
Weekly 25% water change.
Light: 220w, 20000 Lumen at 4000K

Weekly Dosing:

Nitrate - 40 ppm
Phosphate - 2 ppm
Potassium - 30-35 ppm
Plantex CSM - 0.1 ppm registered on Iron

Some plants are stunted, tiny leaves and almost 0 growth tops.
Suffering plants are Rotala Rotundifolia, Ammannia Senegalensis and Gracilis and Alternanthera Reineckii Mini.

While most of the other plants like Limnophila, Ludwigia, Undulutus, Bacopa and Glosso are all fine and no signs of stunting. Few other plants are even showing red coloration like Ludwigia Glandulosa.

How can i get rid of these tiny leaves and stunted tops ?

Is it something related to GH? because i use almost EI dosing regime so i expect it shouldn't be NPK and micro deficiency..

Is it necessary to add Potassium while making GH mix ? I just do 1:4 Ca (4)and Mg (1) salt mix before adding to RO Water. Nilocg uses 1:3:3 Ratio while Seachem uses 1:4:8 Ratio.

Is it necessary to be K ppm higher than Calcium and Magnesium ppm ?


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Do you have fish or shrimps in this tank? If yes, are they behaving OK? (i.e no shrimps trying to escape from the tank)
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Old 10-23-2019, 09:28 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Struggling with Gh fertilization.

El Natural tanks are not normally fertilized, although some light fertilizing can be done. You should probably be using tap water, not RO water, which has had far too much of the natural minerals removed. The El Natural method is basically designed for rooted plants, which get their nutrients from the soil. If you are using tap water you should have enough nutrients in the water to keep the stem plants growing. You also need to be using a soil type substrate, with a cap of something like pool filter sand as a top layer. Did you post your question in the wrong forum???
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Old 10-23-2019, 09:54 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Struggling with Gh fertilization.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zolteeC View Post
Do you have fish or shrimps in this tank? If yes, are they behaving OK? (i.e no shrimps trying to escape from the tank)
No sir, I've 5 Amano Shrimps .. None of them tries to swim even.. All day long they are grazing.. And if not grazing they they roll the aquasoil grains..
Ive assassin snails as well ... They occasionally climb up almost to the top only during the later CO2 period, but never tries to breach the water surface ( i guess thats due to pushed CO2)

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Old 10-23-2019, 09:59 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Struggling with Gh fertilization.

Quote:
Originally Posted by comewithme07 View Post
No sir, I've 5 Amano Shrimps .. None of them tries to swim even.. All day long they are grazing.. And if not grazing they they roll the aquasoil grains..
Ive assassin snails as well ... They occasionally climb up almost to the top only during the later CO2 period, but never tries to breach the water surface ( i guess thats due to pushed CO2)

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All right then, supposedly your pH stays in a reasonable range. 1 dGH sounds like its on a knife edge to me, but well, I have never ever had such a low water hardness so no experience on my side on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by comewithme07 View Post
Is it necessary to be K ppm higher than Calcium and Magnesium ppm ?
Well, this is more like a low-tech forum, so maybe not the best place to get advice on high tech Estimative Index tanks.
My guess is, that since K is a macro nutrient there needs to me much, much more than Ca or Mg.
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Old 10-23-2019, 09:59 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Struggling with Gh fertilization.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoppycalif View Post
El Natural tanks are not normally fertilized, although some light fertilizing can be done. You should probably be using tap water, not RO water, which has had far too much of the natural minerals removed. The El Natural method is basically designed for rooted plants, which get their nutrients from the soil. If you are using tap water you should have enough nutrients in the water to keep the stem plants growing. You also need to be using a soil type substrate, with a cap of something like pool filter sand as a top layer. Did you post your question in the wrong forum???
Sir my tap water is really crap ... dKH is horrible 23 ... And dGH is nearly 24 or 25... And the worst thing is pH .. Which is 8.5 almost.

For rooted plants i do use tabs btw... DIY tabs .. 1 capsule at every 4 inch grid pattern.

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Old 10-23-2019, 06:04 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Struggling with Gh fertilization.

How big is your tank? You might have too much light.
This sounds like a high tech tank with no dirt?

You can have stunted growth when it lacks certain micronutrients. You might need to add a complete micronutrient fertilizer.

Last edited by mistergreen; 10-23-2019 at 06:51 PM..
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Old 10-23-2019, 07:55 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Struggling with Gh fertilization.

Quote:
Originally Posted by comewithme07 View Post
Sir my tap water is really crap ... dKH is horrible 23 ... And dGH is nearly 24 or 25... And the worst thing is pH .. Which is 8.5 almost.

For rooted plants i do use tabs btw... DIY tabs .. 1 capsule at every 4 inch grid pattern.

Sent from my SM-A720F using Tapatalk
For water that bad I suggest you add Seachem Eequilibrium per the dosage guide on the bottle. That restores the GH. If the KH is still lower than 2-3 dKH, I would add sodium bicarbonate to raise it to 3-4 dKH. Then, every time you change water you will need to add more of both, to keep the hardness up where you had it.
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Old 10-23-2019, 08:02 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Struggling with Gh fertilization.

Or just add a little of your tap water into the RO water and not worry about baking soda, Equilibrium, etc...
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