Doesn't get more natural then this..unnatural stream! - El Natural - Aquatic Plant Central

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Old 01-19-2020, 07:54 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Doesn't get more natural then this..unnatural stream!

"Warm Spring" in Austria where I guess some hot water spring keep the water over 70f all year. So there you are in a bitter cold Austria winter looking at Ancistrus and platys playing in crystal clear water with great growths of Cryptocoryne and Vallisneria americana ( or Italian)..along with Convict fish,Cichlasoma nigrofasciatum, that have much yellow color. I've never them with that before.
This is one of I think 3 films of this..and commenters all rip the poster for telling the world about this secret paradise. I think they are worried somebody will take all the exotic water plants..and then dump some kind of fish that will just ruin the ecosystem by being a large tropical predator.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTX_OSDFZAA
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Old 01-20-2020, 06:33 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Doesn't get more natural then this..unnatural stream!

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Originally Posted by Stan510 View Post
I think they are worried somebody will take all the exotic water plants..and then dump some kind of fish that will just ruin the ecosystem by being a large tropical predator.
May have already happened with convicts and crypts?
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Old 01-20-2020, 06:47 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Doesn't get more natural then this..unnatural stream!

Begin rant . . .

Sorry, the natural ecosystem has already been ruined by the introduction of all those exotic species! This exactly what responsible aquarists SHOULD NOT DO!

We have similar springs and entire rivers in Texas. Rare native species that evolved in these unique and isolated habitats are threatened by introduced "throw away" fish that someone became bored with. This sort of thing makes environmentalists want to ban all exotic species from the pet trade, and when idiots do this it makes the ban sound like a good idea.

For the sake of the environment and the future of our hobby, NEVER release any aquarium species into a natural waterway, either on purpose or by accident!

My first thought was to delete this thread, and give an infraction to the poster. But I have decided to make it a teaching moment instead.

. . . end rant.
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Old 01-20-2020, 08:02 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Doesn't get more natural then this..unnatural stream!

What's different here is that unlike Texas or Florida..or Brazil...is that THIS up there in 60th degree north in frigid Austria there is zero chance those fish will spread into any major water system. I picked up from the translated comments section that even in this warm spring the area that's warm enough for the tropical fish to survive the winter is near the outlet...maybe one or two hundred yards.

I don't think they've displaced much since native fish prefer...NEED cool to cold winter waters. Plus a few tench or Ruds still hang out there.

I don't see this as any major eco disaster. There are no pupfish here. It's a fluke,thats interesting.

I don't advocate releasing aquarium fish into native streams...they would just die in winter here. Plus this is nothing compared to the damage our own Fish and Game have done to the USA. Native California fish went extinct by the dozens thanks to east coast fish brought here.

The deed was done in Austria. Not really an epic disaster. I thought it was interesting.
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Old 01-20-2020, 08:46 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Doesn't get more natural then this..unnatural stream!

The fact that this habitat is so isolated, small, and unique is precisely the reason the damage is so uniquely bad. The fact that the tropical exotics cannot spread beyond it is immaterial. It is interesting in the same way a train wreck is interesting.
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Old 01-20-2020, 10:15 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Doesn't get more natural then this..unnatural stream!

There are cold water aquarium fish that have turned invasive as well.
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Old 01-22-2020, 05:57 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Doesn't get more natural then this..unnatural stream!

Introducing any species into an area where they were never native is a bad idea. Look at all the lionfish along the eastern USA in the Atlantic that were introduced by some aquarist who dumped some into the ocean to get rid of them, probably thinking that they came from the ocean, so what's wrong with this? They came from Asia and did well there, had natural predators there, and were kept in balance by nature. In the Atlantic along the eastern coast of the USA they are devastating the native fish and have no natural predators to keep them in check.

The isolated area might make it less bad, but it's still a bad idea. Now, introducing a species that went extinct in an area, like the wolves introduced back into the western US, is a good thing. They're bringing balance back to nature there, making more food available for the wildlife by killing the older elk, which ate plants almost into extinction. Those plants, and animals that had left but once depended on them, are coming back now. The wolves once were native and humans hunted them to local extinction.

The world is going down the tubes quickly enough without us accelerating it.
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Old 01-22-2020, 07:09 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Doesn't get more natural then this..unnatural stream!

I asked the poster of the vid for more details..but those fish are subtropicals as the water i found listed on another vid will go as low as 16C,or 60f. So,no Discus there..ever.
One thing about the Germans? They never answer comments from English speakers! ..true. I've asked a slew of them..not one ever answered. Asians,Russians,Brazilians..yes. Germans..never once!
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Old 01-23-2020, 07:11 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Doesn't get more natural then this..unnatural stream!

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I asked the poster of the vid for more details..but those fish are subtropicals as the water i found listed on another vid will go as low as 16C,or 60f. So,no Discus there..ever.
One thing about the Germans? They never answer comments from English speakers! ..true. I've asked a slew of them..not one ever answered. Asians,Russians,Brazilians..yes. Germans..never once!
Now you have a great reason for learning to speak the German language!
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Old 01-23-2020, 08:21 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Doesn't get more natural then this..unnatural stream!

Plus,learn to eat my words..Sure enough another German who has also did a great little vid..answered. Never fails,I step out on the plank..and it snaps! Taught me is right.
So this other gentleman says the water temps varies from 25C in summer,to 20C in winter( 77F and 68f) and that would be just warm enough in winter to keep the fish unstressed. He estimates too that the little stream runs warm for 500-1000 meters before it gets chilly again..winter time.
To think,Amano's Lisbon aquarium is 40 meters by comparison. My aquarium is 2.4 meters(8') !
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