Chlorine, Chloramine and Water Treatment Products/Solutions - El Natural - Aquatic Plant Central

Go Back   Aquatic Plant Central > General Interest Forums > El Natural

El Natural Diana Walstad's low-maintenance, soil-based 'El Natural' method for keeping plants and fish.

Like Tree36Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-20-2020, 12:51 PM   #1 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 87
iTrader Ratings: 0
Karen in San Jose is a regular member
Default Chlorine, Chloramine and Water Treatment Products/Solutions

I realized I've kind of hijacked a couple threads on this topic and I apologize for that. I'd like to discuss this further as I find it interesting and important and I'd like to understand it better, and maybe others would, too. So, I hope you all don't mind me starting a separate thread on this topic.

I recently accidentally added the wrong amount of API tap water conditioner to my 20 gallon tank. The only creatures I had in it were snails, blackworms and one shrimp. My mistake didn't harm the plants, shrimp or snails, but I had a huge blackworm die-off of the ones right where I poured in the conditioner.

My error: It's the concentrated formula and the correct dose is 1ml to 20 gallons of water. I'm used to my API Stresscoat conditioner, which is 1ml/gallon. So, what I did was I added 20ml to my 20 gallon tank. I should have only put 1ml in the tank.

I poured the conditioner into the tank after I'd removed about 50% of the water, and just before I was going to add the tap water. The tap water is fine and doesn't contain chloramines. It had been airing for at least several days, so shouldn't have had any chlorine in it, either.

I stopped using any water conditioner, as I became nervous about hurting my creatures, and they've all been fine. But, I've been advised here on this forum, that it's possible that my city water may start adding chloramine to the water, and I learned this is possible from my city water website. So, it would be better to just treat the water, in case the city started using chloramine.

What I've learned about chloramine is that it's chlorine mixed with ammonia. And, it doesn't dissipate in the air, like plain chlorine does. So, by adding it to your tank, you are adding both chlorine and ammonia.

Some water conditioners treat for only chlorine and not for the additional ammonia, some do.

This article explains the difference and lists some different products and whether they treat for one or both.

http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/wiki/Water_conditioners

Mysiak mentioned using vitamin C as a natural treatment, and others mentioned specific products they used that they have had good experiences with. Would you all mind mentioning them again here? Or if anyone has anything to add, please do?

My concern is that by adding chemicals to the tank, it stresses out the fish. I hate to add a chemical to a chemical - adding a water conditioner to take care of the chlorine if there's chloramine, and then have to also add an ammonia blocker.

I guess I'm wondering if it's just safer to buy some kind of bottled water?

I did read somewhere that you can tell if your tap water has chloramine by testing it for ammonia. I tested mine today with just a simple ammonia test from my kit and it showed 0 (or according to a color chart, anyway, which isn't perfect).

What are you all doing? Please advise and educate me.
Karen in San Jose is offline   Reply With Quote

Advertisement [Remove Advertisement]
Old 07-20-2020, 01:08 PM   #2 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
mistergreen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,645
iTrader Ratings: 0
mistergreen is a regular member
Default Re: Chlorine, Chloramine and Water Treatment Products/Solutions

When I need to top off my pond, I'll use ascorbic acid/vitamin c. It's cheap and easy. It'll neutralize both chlorine & chloramine. I'm sure the ammonia is chloramine in not neutralized but it might. Ascorbic acid might oxydize NH3 to NO2 or NO3 but I'll have to test that or find literature on that.

I run my aquarium water through a duel carbon house filter. It'll take out any chemicals, chlorine or chloramine.

There's no harm in using Prime and the rest but make sure to dose appropriately.
Karen in San Jose likes this.
mistergreen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2020, 01:16 PM   #3 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 87
iTrader Ratings: 0
Karen in San Jose is a regular member
Default Re: Chlorine, Chloramine and Water Treatment Products/Solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by mistergreen View Post
When I need to top off my pond, I'll use ascorbic acid/vitamin c. It's cheap and easy. It'll neutralize both chlorine & chloramine. I'm sure the ammonia is chloramine in not neutralized but it might. Ascorbic acid might oxydize NH3 to NO2 or NO3 but I'll have to test that or find literature on that.

I run my aquarium water through a duel carbon house filter. It'll take out any chemicals, chlorine or chloramine.

There's no harm in using Prime and the rest but make sure to dose appropriately.
What is the dosage you use for the ascorbic acid? If you test or find the literature on the possible oxydization, etc., I'd love to check that out. I find this really interesting. Thank you.
Karen in San Jose is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old 07-20-2020, 01:23 PM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 766
iTrader Ratings: 0
Red_Rose is a regular member
Default Re: Chlorine, Chloramine and Water Treatment Products/Solutions

My city uses chlorine so I let any water that I need for topping up my tank sit for 24 hours to let the chlorine release from the water. I store the water in 4L(little over one gallon) jugs and I add one or two drops of Prime to each jug to detoxify/remove heavy metals. It works for me.
Karen in San Jose likes this.

Last edited by Red_Rose; 07-20-2020 at 01:24 PM.. Reason: Punctuation
Red_Rose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2020, 01:56 PM   #5 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 87
iTrader Ratings: 0
Karen in San Jose is a regular member
Default Re: Chlorine, Chloramine and Water Treatment Products/Solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_Rose View Post
My city uses chlorine so I let any water that I need for topping up my tank sit for 24 hours to let the chlorine release from the water. I store the water in 4L(little over one gallon) jugs and I add one or two drops of Prime to each jug to detoxify/remove heavy metals. It works for me.
Do you just use an eyedropper to measure "drops"? Such as I could just buy on Amazon? I've been wondering this lately, when I've seen other conditioners, etc., that say to add drops and I'm wondering how to measure the drops, when no eyedropper is included.

Sorry if this is a silly question, but I just had a near-disaster in a tank by measuring incorrectly. My shrimp and snails loved eating all the dead blackworms, I just sucked up the extra with a turkey baster and there are plenty left, so disaster was in the eye of the beholder. Little snail and shrimp eyes are thinking, disaster? It was manna! Whatta ya talkin about?
Karen in San Jose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2020, 02:19 PM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
mistergreen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,645
iTrader Ratings: 0
mistergreen is a regular member
Default Re: Chlorine, Chloramine and Water Treatment Products/Solutions

Most municipals dose 1ppm of chlorine into the water.
1 gram of C (1/4 tsp) will treat 1ppm of chlorine in 100gallons.
Karen in San Jose likes this.
mistergreen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2020, 02:29 PM   #7 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 766
iTrader Ratings: 0
Red_Rose is a regular member
Default Re: Chlorine, Chloramine and Water Treatment Products/Solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karen in San Jose View Post
Do you just use an eyedropper to measure "drops"? Such as I could just buy on Amazon? I've been wondering this lately, when I've seen other conditioners, etc., that say to add drops and I'm wondering how to measure the drops, when no eyedropper is included.

Sorry if this is a silly question, but I just had a near-disaster in a tank by measuring incorrectly. My shrimp and snails loved eating all the dead blackworms, I just sucked up the extra with a turkey baster and there are plenty left, so disaster was in the eye of the beholder. Little snail and shrimp eyes are thinking, disaster? It was manna! Whatta ya talkin about?
I use a basic medical dropper from the drug store that has ml for the measurements. 5 ml of Prime, which is the standard dose, will treat 50 gallons of water. 1 ml will treat 10 gallons so a drop is all I need for my 4L jugs. The most I've used is two drops and I've never had any problems.

Not silly at all! I had to treat my tank with levamisole so if I had any worms in my tank, they are long gone now. lol I just wish I knew if my scuds were still alive. I haven't seen them in many months. :/
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	dropper.jpg
Views:	18
Size:	26.4 KB
ID:	63609  
Karen in San Jose likes this.
Red_Rose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2020, 10:56 PM   #8 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Slovakia, Europe
Posts: 522
iTrader Ratings: 0
mysiak is a regular member
Default Re: Chlorine, Chloramine and Water Treatment Products/Solutions

Seachem Prime/Safe does not remove heavy metals, it doesn't contain any chelators (even confirmed by Seachem). It might detoxify some ionic heavy metals, but it's only a side effect of reduction chemical (Sodium thiosulfate) and even in controlled experiments the results are not always so clear as one would expect. What is interesting, Prime is being claimed to detoxify heavy metals, but Safe not. However they are supposed to be pretty much the same product in a different form (Prime containing stabilisers).

Also it most probably can't detoxify ammonia or nitrite or nitrate (I am yet to find an evidence or scientific explanation why/how it should work).

Vitamin C - ascorbic acid, is reducing agent, so IMHO it can't oxidise anything directly. I couldn't find any information that it would create some byproducts which are oxidising agents and can oxidise ammonia. However along with Sodium ascorbate (which is preferred due to less impact on pH and oxygen) it is a recommended way for large scale and environmental friendly dechlorination.

All that being said, I use Seachem Safe. It's cheap, its effects are well known (if we omit the mumbo jumbo from Seachem), it removes chlorine and chloramine (I am not sure if my country will ever switch to it, but rather be safe than sorry). Any ammonia produced during dechlorination will be utilized by plants and beneficial bacteria. To counteract possible oxygen removal I dose a bit of hydrogen peroxide with every water change. For heavy metals removal - I consider safe drinking water also safe for fish + I dose Montmorillonite clay with every water change, which among other benefits should bind heavy metals to its particles.
Karen in San Jose likes this.
mysiak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2020, 07:09 AM   #9 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Slovakia, Europe
Posts: 522
iTrader Ratings: 0
mysiak is a regular member
Default Re: Chlorine, Chloramine and Water Treatment Products/Solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_Rose View Post
I really wish that this site was more like Reddit where you could easily voice your opinions in your own words without having to censor them or even risk getting banned for it because I would tell mysiak to go **** him/herself for constantly jumping on my posts.



I've been using Prime when I started my first Walstad tank back in 2007 and I still use it now and I've never had any problems from it. Many others use it as well so it clearly works for many people.



If certain individuals have anything else to say to me, take it up in a PM.
Excuse me?

OP asked us to repeat what has been said in the second, slighlty unrelated topic. I did it, backing up my info with scientific explanations and experiments. If you prefer anecdotal information with no science behind, be my guest. I am glad that this forum is not like reddit, full of utterly easily offended individuals.

If you want to continue discussion related to the topic, I'm open to hearing other opinions as long as they're based on science/data and not pure beliefs. But publicly please, I have no interest in PMing.
FromReefs2Plants likes this.
mysiak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2020, 08:09 AM   #10 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 766
iTrader Ratings: 0
Red_Rose is a regular member
Default Re: Chlorine, Chloramine and Water Treatment Products/Solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by mysiak View Post
Excuse me?

OP asked us to repeat what has been said in the second, slighlty unrelated topic. I did it, backing up my info with scientific explanations and experiments. If you prefer anecdotal information with no science behind, be my guest. I am glad that this forum is not like reddit, full of utterly easily offended individuals.

If you want to continue discussion related to the topic, I'm open to hearing other opinions as long as they're based on science/data and not pure beliefs. But publicly please, I have no interest in PMing.
OP explained what happened and then asked this:

"Mysiak mentioned using vitamin C as a natural treatment, and others mentioned specific products they used that they have had good experiences with. Would you all mind mentioning them again here? Or if anyone has anything to add, please do?"

She asked others what they use and their experiences with it. She did not ask people to come in and explain how what other people are using is wrong and only what one specific person is using is correct.

If a person started a post asking what kind of fish people keep with good success, would you go in and explain how it's not advisable to keep the fish others have had success with and that the only fish worth dealing with are what you have?
Red_Rose is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Aquatic Plant Central > General Interest Forums > El Natural > Chlorine, Chloramine and Water Treatment Products/Solutions

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:35 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1