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Old 11-14-2008, 04:00 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why live with a wood burning stove?

The question is, do you feel your way is the correct way and the way others should see it as? That is the impression I am getting.

What is really puzzling you?

I think each system is as different as the area one lives. And if a person found a system that works for them, then kudos to them. Trying to fix that which is not broken is pointless. As it is pointless trying to make someone see the proverbial light.


So I am asking, what are you trying to get across? are we wrong and you are correct?
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Old 11-14-2008, 04:05 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why live with a wood burning stove?

Quote:
Originally Posted by helgymatt View Post
OK, YOU WIN! CO2 controllers are the best thing ever invented. Keep using yours, and I'll keep using my wood burning stove, because it works wonderfully!

Oh BTW, I have a pH meter that I have tested my water throughout the period of the photoperiod. pH drops to 6.3 in about 2 hrs after the CO2 turns on and doesn't move off that point the whole day!

Now please tell me how a CO2 controller would benefit me!!!
I love you and I cannot win since this is not a contest!

You didn't say what the pH was at the start? I'd be curious how much of a pH change you have. As a rule of thumb 1 pH unit = a 10x change in CO2.
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Old 11-14-2008, 04:13 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why live with a wood burning stove?

My pH starts at 7.3 and goes to 6.3. Please tell me what is wrong with a 10x pH change! If the CO2 starts out at 2-5ppm and you go to 20-35 that is a 10x change. Provide some evidence this is bad, and I'll start to listen.

Oh by the way...I have already explained all of this to you!

This was our discussion before. Your comment in italics
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray-the-pilot
A whole pH unit! I would be worried about that not because of the change in pH but because this corresponds to a 10 fold increase in CO2. CO2 levels ranging from 50 – 5 seem unhealthy but I guess Angelfish can take it.

Yes a ten fold increase, but I don't see if really meaning much. pH is a direct relationship between KH and pH. Look at this chart.
http://freshwateraquariumplants.com/...xidechart.html
My KH is about 3. At pH 7.2 I have about 5 ppm CO2 - My pH drops to 6.3 which means my CO2 is then between 35-56 ppm. - which explains why my drop checker is yellow/green and not green (drop checkers are green at ~25-30ppm

What is the basis for saying this is unhealthy until you have tried it and know that the fish can tolerate it? My fish and plants are perfectly healthy.
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Old 11-14-2008, 04:18 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Default Please Read This

Thank you everyone for your posts!

I would like to reply to everyone and will try to do so but can you follow some rules about posting.

If you want to call me an idiot please link your post with my original post. That way I know you are talking to me.

If you want to comment on something that someone else says link to their post and I will ignore that post.

When the nest gets so deep that it doesn't appear on your screen it is better to start a new post and reference what you are commenting on.

BTW I expect that any new technology will meet with some resistance and I do not think this group is really too difficult.

Peace RTP
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Old 11-14-2008, 04:21 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why live with a wood burning stove?

How about some pictures of those great tanks Ray? I mean, you believe deeply in your theories. There must be a reason why. I'd love to see your success.
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Old 11-14-2008, 04:23 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: Please Read This

Quote:
Originally Posted by ray-the-pilot View Post
Thank you everyone for your posts!

I would like to reply to everyone and will try to do so but can you follow some rules about posting.

If you want to call me an idiot please link your post with my original post. That way I know you are talking to me.

If you want to comment on something that someone else says link to their post and I will ignore that post.

When the nest gets so deep that it doesn't appear on your screen it is better to start a new post and reference what you are commenting on.

BTW I expect that any new technology will meet with some resistance and I do not think this group is really too difficult.

Peace RTP
I don't get what is so complicated here...You ask a question and get a response.

I actaully am beginning to think you are getting more enjoyment with people calling you an idiot. What are you trying to prove!!! Please tell us all. Everyone is having success, success, success, without CO2 controllers. And yes, people are having success with them. CO2 controllers are not new technology at all! IF ANYTHING can solve this rediculous back and forth it is that the CO2 controller is a luxury, not a necessity.

But, I'm sure the dead horse will continue to be beaten, and beaten, and beaten, and beaten.
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Old 11-14-2008, 04:30 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why live with a wood burning stove?

Quote:
Originally Posted by helgymatt View Post
My pH starts at 7.3 and goes to 6.3. Please tell me what is wrong with a 10x pH change! If the CO2 starts out at 2-5ppm and you go to 20-35 that is a 10x change. Provide some evidence this is bad, and I'll start to listen.
Well first let me point out that if you assume that the original level was 2-5 then your estimate of the 10x increase is 20-50 not 20-35. Also how do you know that the original level was 2-5?
Since you do not have a controlled system, how do you know that there are not places in your tank where the CO2 is higher still?

Look I'm not telling you that your fish are going to die or your plants will wilt. What I'm saying is that without control over your tank you don't know what is going on and it can be way out of control before you know it.
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Old 11-14-2008, 04:30 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: Please Read This

Quote:
Originally Posted by helgymatt View Post
I don't get what is so complicated here...You ask a question and get a response.

I actaully am beginning to think you are getting more enjoyment with people calling you an idiot. What are you trying to prove!!! Please tell us all. Everyone is having success, success, success, without CO2 controllers. And yes, people are having success with them. CO2 controllers are not new technology at all! IF ANYTHING can solve this rediculous back and forth it is that the CO2 controller is a luxury, not a necessity.

But, I'm sure the dead horse will continue to be beaten, and beaten, and beaten, and beaten.

and beaten and beaten, I think its well on its way to being dogfood and or glue.

He hasn't answered mine yet. Anyway yeah I agree with you. It's a luxury.

I ran a DIY system for months without a drop checker or any sort of indication other than fish and my danio still spawn.
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Old 11-14-2008, 04:34 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: Please Read This

Quote:
Originally Posted by ray-the-pilot View Post
Thank you everyone for your posts!

I would like to reply to everyone and will try to do so but can you follow some rules about posting.

If you want to call me an idiot please link your post with my original post. That way I know you are talking to me.

If you want to comment on something that someone else says link to their post and I will ignore that post.

When the nest gets so deep that it doesn't appear on your screen it is better to start a new post and reference what you are commenting on.

BTW I expect that any new technology will meet with some resistance and I do not think this group is really too difficult.

Peace RTP
Ray - speaking of learning new things... You don't have to start a new thread every time the "nest" gets too "deep". () You see that little button that says "last page"? Click it. Look at that, there are still posts there! In fact, if you were to look at some of the more popular sticky threads on here, some of them are 50+ pages long! So please, stop polluting the forums with the same junk. Being willfully ignorant and trying to create your own rules of forum use because you don't grasp the ones that exist is not a great way to get your point across.
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Old 11-14-2008, 04:35 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: Please Read This

Quote:
Originally Posted by helgymatt View Post
I don't get what is so complicated here...You ask a question and get a response.

I actaully am beginning to think you are getting more enjoyment with people calling you an idiot. What are you trying to prove!!! Please tell us all. Everyone is having success, success, success, without CO2 controllers. And yes, people are having success with them. CO2 controllers are not new technology at all! IF ANYTHING can solve this rediculous back and forth it is that the CO2 controller is a luxury, not a necessity.

But, I'm sure the dead horse will continue to be beaten, and beaten, and beaten, and beaten.
It makes you wonder? If a person doesn't know how to follow posting rules how they can grow plants!

Can you link to some pics of your tank? I'd like to see how this mind works.
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