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Old 08-05-2009, 07:00 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: Needle wheel pump

Im out of stock at the moment. It will be 2 weeks until delivery

You can use Danner Needle wheel pumps or Octopus pumps.

Tom B. has been modifying small Rio pumps that you can see on the PTF thread..He seems to like those..
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Old 08-05-2009, 07:18 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: Needle wheel pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by orlando View Post
One thing I was thinking of is building a PVC fitting with one of Hydor ceramic tubes inside afixed some how and have co2 mist going into the pump.
What do you think?
I missed this one, but yes I'd be interested to see if that would do better than having a venturi feeding the impeller.
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Old 08-11-2009, 12:11 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: Needle wheel pump

I had a discussion with Adam a few weeks back regarding needle wheel pumps and decided to give it a shot at co2 misting myself. I order two octopus 1000 needle wheels from Jen’s Saltwater Haven for $45 (they were the cheapest I found online) ea and they finally arrived last Friday after a looooong wait.

I also had the impellers modified with two layers of enkamat I bought last week on eBay ($6 for a 6x6”) and I was astonished by the results.

Here is the modified impeller:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...a/IMG_8266.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...a/IMG_8267.jpg

I didn’t want to damage it so I decided not to remove the top layer of the impeller. However, I did tighten the mesh to prevent it from rubbing.

The pump was very efficient as the bubbles were microscopic and remained in suspension for a while before reaching to the surface. Minutes after operation, fishes started to grasp for air near the surface of the tank and I had to reduce the number of bubbles per second from the original output.

As mentioned by Adam, the mist could also serve as a very good flow indicator. Most of the areas in my 55 gallon tank is virtually filled with co2 bubbles. Just by looking at the movement of the bubbles, I could tell where the turbulence is the strongest and where the water stagnates.

I am normally a forum lurker and I am always too lazy to post anything in threads. But I wanted to spread the word a bit and encourage others to try this method.
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Old 08-11-2009, 04:01 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: Needle wheel pump

thanks for sharing your experience! I should have my mesh soon and I'll also try to add it without snipping back the impeller blades. Do you notice any additional heat from the pump ( or ideally do you have a killawatt to monitor power usage ) ? too bad on the high price - I got my OTP-1000 pumps for around $26 each, but I do agree that it isnt possible to find it for that price now. Either way they seem to be very durable pumps and should last for a long time.
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Old 08-11-2009, 07:59 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Question Re: Needle wheel pump

I realize that there are many different paths that can be taken in order to get to the same destination, but I am having a very difficult time understanding why should I choose to take this one.

I currently use an Aqua Medic CO2 Reactor 1000, hanging externally on the back of the tank, with the return water from a Fluval 403 canister filter flowing through it (the return hose is actually set up with a "T", where one half goes through the reactor, and the other half goes to a Loc-Line flexible return, with each side having it's own ball valve so I can adjust the flow; currently, just about all of the return water is going to the reactor). The CO2 is very efficiently dissolved into the water, with no bubbles escaping out into the tank, where it seems to me they would just rise to the surface and pop, which would allow the CO2 to escape.

I have seen where other aquarists also use some type of reactor, but have also seen the various methods of blowing a CO2 mist out into the tank. It seems to me that the reactor method would be more efficient and a lot less likely to waste the CO2. Plus, I doubt any of the fish in nature would be presented with a cloud of CO2 in their water. Is there any real benefit from using this needle wheel pump method over a reactor?

Thanks,

Andy
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Old 08-11-2009, 08:12 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: Needle wheel pump

There is a real benefit indeed. If you read looking4roselines post they are mentioned in there.

Benefits..

1) No loss of flow like you would with a reactor.

2) You actually will benefit from the added flow by using the fine mist as a flow pattern indicator. This will help eliminate dead spots.

3) Lower Bubble counts on your regulator saving you co2.

4) I have long preferred misting over anything else, but this is just my opinion.

The only draw back that I can see is that it is one more thing you have to plug in


Regards,
Orlando
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Old 08-11-2009, 09:27 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: Needle wheel pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashappard View Post
thanks for sharing your experience! I should have my mesh soon and I'll also try to add it without snipping back the impeller blades. Do you notice any additional heat from the pump ( or ideally do you have a killawatt to monitor power usage ) ? too bad on the high price - I got my OTP-1000 pumps for around $26 each, but I do agree that it isnt possible to find it for that price now. Either way they seem to be very durable pumps and should last for a long time.
I am extremely pleased with the results. I wouldn't mind putting out a few extra dollars and I take it that the benefits would ultimately outweigh the costs in the long run.

I did notice that the pump ran a bit warmer than the average pump. I presume this is from normal operation? Or would the mesh put a strain on the pump because of the added weight and restriction?

Last edited by looking4roselines; 08-11-2009 at 01:14 PM..
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Old 08-11-2009, 09:47 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: Needle wheel pump

on top of what Orlando added to Andy's question - there is the issue of mist vs dissolved in the water.
I cannot explain why it seems to work better, but when I first switched from reactors to mist I was impressed at the performance with lower bubble rates. So less gas used and better growth. Is it the added flow? the tiny bubbles touching the plants? dunno. Your results may vary

Quote:
Originally Posted by looking4roselines
I did notice that the pump ran a bit warmer than the average pump. I presume this is from normal operation? Or would the mesh put a strain on the pump because of the added weight and restriction?
thats one of my concerns. I'll monitor power usage before and after meshmod and see if the difference is significant.
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Old 08-11-2009, 07:18 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: Needle wheel pump

Hey Adam, did you go for the mesh mod yet?
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Old 08-11-2009, 08:39 PM   #30 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Needle wheel pump

There is a way to test these modifications. Use a killawatt to test the pump use before and after the mod. The wattage should decrease as the air/co2 intake is increased. More air/co2=Less resistance=less wattage. I am modding my skimmers on my reefs and read this on several sites but didn't bookmark any. Just search" skimmer mesh mod" and at least a couple of those forums will have it. I intend to add mesh to the top of one of my needlewheels and see if it drags and what results i get on the killawatt. If it drags I assume wattage will go up even though you would see a performance increase. This could also cause a heat increase. I will probably end up pulling the needlewheels apart but we will see. Maybe ill do the impeller in my 3 gal plant tank, but i doubt it.
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