Boron deficiency, or calcium deficiency---or could it be nitrate excess? - Page 3 - Fertilizing - Aquatic Plant Central

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Old 09-22-2010, 04:50 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Default re: Boron deficiency, or calcium deficiency---or could it be nitrate excess?

(darkoon) YES but in a tremendously HIGH concentration.

(davejt) CSM+B has Boron in it. That is the +B which is my understanding.

If you have to add Boric acid use by weight 14 parts CSM to 1 part Boric Acid.
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Old 09-23-2010, 07:48 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Default re: Boron deficiency, or calcium deficiency---or could it be nitrate excess?

I should have been more clear. I does CSM-B already, but plants are deficient somewhere, I am pretty sure it is not Magnesium now, so I'm thinking Boron? maybe?

At any rate the real questions would be:

1. could my CSM+B be lacking in Boron do to: bad mix from factory, bad mix/uneven distribution here, age, reacting with something in the mix?

2. Can I mix additional Boron (boric acid) into my trace element solution without problems, I assume so as it is already in the CSM+B. But based on #1 above would Seachem Excel or Iron glucanate or any of the other Irons / traces change the efficacy of the Boron?

3. How much extra Boron would be appropriate? Another 14:1 jolt?

4. Any problems with excess Boron?

5. Any know water issues with Boron uptake? Water too hard? etc.

Thanks.
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Old 09-24-2010, 05:53 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Default re: Boron deficiency, or calcium deficiency---or could it be nitrate excess?

Quote:
Originally Posted by davejt View Post
1. could my CSM+B be lacking in Boron do to: bad mix from factory, bad mix/uneven distribution here, age, reacting with something in the mix?
While all of those things are certainly possible, I'm pretty sure that the factory is smart enough to (1) have internal QA/QC procedures to minimize the release of a badly mixed product and (2) know before hand if even adding the B source would cause a problem. The kinetics of B reacting w/ other chemicals could be high enough to cause a problem over a substantial amount of time (i.e. years), but that reaction rate could also be caused by other things out of the manufacturer's control like improper storage (i.e. wet chemicals react much faster to things than dry chemicals). I have CSM+B mix at home and know that it may certainly be possible to get a "bad mix" since there are different particle size of the chemical mix, but without knowing or even being able to examine the individual solids in the mixture, this is just speculation and handwaving at best.

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Originally Posted by davejt View Post
2. Can I mix additional Boron (boric acid) into my trace element solution without problems, I assume so as it is already in the CSM+B. But based on #1 above would Seachem Excel or Iron glucanate or any of the other Irons / traces change the efficacy of the Boron?
Without trying it myself, your best bet would be to just try adding the boric acid yourself and letting us know what the answer is. My guess would be yes, but don't quote me on that. Personally, i would be hesitant to add B in any form to the Seachem products due to the fact that boric acid is an acid and potential reducing agent (according to the Wikipedia entry). Why don't you post this question in APC's Seachem forum section and ask them directly?

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Originally Posted by davejt View Post
3. How much extra Boron would be appropriate? Another 14:1 jolt?

4. Any problems with excess Boron?

5. Any know water issues with Boron uptake? Water too hard? etc.
Everything is toxic in large enough quantities. Check out the wikipedia entry on "Boric Acid" to see for yourself about its toxicity. According to all the posts here, however, the necessary amount of boron isn't very high. (If it was, then B would be considered a macroelement, not a microelement, and it's deficiency would have been known a long time ago, don't you think?) As for water issues, I would just add it to your aquarium and see what happens.

Boron chemistry is probably just less well known in general due to the difficulty in analyzing it (IMHO). My experience analyzing B in the laboratory is that B is a pain to analyze because it sticks to glassware like glue, making it very difficult to analyze (which is why I don't analyze it on my ICP-OES).
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Old 09-24-2010, 06:06 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Default re: Boron deficiency, or calcium deficiency---or could it be nitrate excess?

haha, Boric acid is sold to kill cock roaches, you figure how poison that is...
Did you check your CO2 concentration? is it >30ppm? CO2 deficiency can also cause small twisted new leaves. If you're sure it is B deficiency, and don't want to mess with Boric Acid, you can dose more CSM+B to see if that helps.


Quote:
Originally Posted by davejt View Post
I should have been more clear. I does CSM-B already, but plants are deficient somewhere, I am pretty sure it is not Magnesium now, so I'm thinking Boron? maybe?

At any rate the real questions would be:

1. could my CSM+B be lacking in Boron do to: bad mix from factory, bad mix/uneven distribution here, age, reacting with something in the mix?

2. Can I mix additional Boron (boric acid) into my trace element solution without problems, I assume so as it is already in the CSM+B. But based on #1 above would Seachem Excel or Iron glucanate or any of the other Irons / traces change the efficacy of the Boron?

3. How much extra Boron would be appropriate? Another 14:1 jolt?

4. Any problems with excess Boron?

5. Any know water issues with Boron uptake? Water too hard? etc.

Thanks.
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Old 09-26-2010, 05:59 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Default re: Boron deficiency, or calcium deficiency---or could it be nitrate excess?

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Originally Posted by darkoon View Post
haha, Boric acid is sold to kill cock roaches, you figure how poison that is...
...very very low for fish and aquatic invertebrates, to the point of (practically) non-toxic.

http://www.beyondpesticides.org/info...ates_borax.htm

The toxic level for fish is 100 PPM.

B in CSM+B is from Boric acid. The amount of B from CSM+B you add for EI method
is just about 0.05 PPM per 2 days. So, don't worry.

But anyone dosing CSM+B will have low chance to get B deficiency.
It's already quite high.
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Old 09-26-2010, 06:06 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Default re: Boron deficiency, or calcium deficiency---or could it be nitrate excess?

Hi OTPT,

Good information, thank you for sharing that with us! BTW, welcome to APC!
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Old 10-18-2010, 11:10 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Default re: Boron deficiency, or calcium deficiency---or could it be nitrate excess?

I think my plants are boron deficient.First i thought it could be ca/mg def. since i have a gh around 4 but even after adding lot of gh booster condition improved but not for that extent.So am dosing boric acid now.what you think about it? is it boron or something else?
water parameter
gh----4d
kh-----2-3d
ph-----6.2-6.8
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Old 10-19-2010, 10:24 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Default re: Boron deficiency, or calcium deficiency---or could it be nitrate excess?

Hi grshs_vny,

I also have very soft water and I have that show up from time to time as well. What are your nitrate and CO2 levels please?

-Roy
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Old 10-19-2010, 12:00 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Default re: Boron deficiency, or calcium deficiency---or could it be nitrate excess?

Hi,I have nitrate around 25ppm,CO2 - i don't know .l broke my dropchekker 2day ago ,but am sure i have good concentration CO2 in my water.
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Old 10-19-2010, 01:18 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Default re: Boron deficiency, or calcium deficiency---or could it be nitrate excess?

Hi grshs_vny,

I had the same problem in one of my tanks a couple of weeks ago. I got busy and didn't do any ferts for about 4 days. I did a 50% water change, added enough Seachem Equilibrium to raise my dGH 0.5 degrees.
Quote:
Guaranteed Analysis
Soluble Potassium (K20) 23.0%
Calcium (Ca) 8.06%
Magnesium (Mg) 2.41%
Soluble Iron (Fe) 0.11%
Soluble Manganese (Mn) 0.06%
Then I started dosing my macros along with CSM+B, extra Iron, and Flourish Comprehensive and the problem seems to be gone. The new leaves seem to be coming out "normal". To be truthful, I am not sure if it was the Macros, Seachem Equilbrium, CSM+B(oron), or Flourish Comprehensive that did the trick.
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