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Help Me Design a Large Planted Fish Aquarium

4K views 16 replies 5 participants last post by  Round Head 
#1 ·
Hi,
I am new here and was refered by a senior member from Piranha Fury.
I don't know anything about aquatic plants, the only experience I ever had with plants were a few java ferns tied to a drift log and they didn't do that well for me either. On the other hand I have kept fish almost all of my life and at this point in time, I would like to elevate my hoby to fulfill an ideal ecosystem. Please bare with me, I would like to share with you my new project which requires your help and guidance. I am in the process of getting a fairly large custom aquarium measuring 84L, 36W, and 28H.
My plan is to house a handful of Pygocentrus Piraya in their most favorable planted environment. These fish are very aggressive and may grow up to 24in in the wild; however realistically I am expecting them to max out at around 14in. These fish will fight and chase each others throughout the day and have very bad table manners. With this in mind, would you be able to provide me suggestions/recommendations for the lighting, plant types, filtration system, plant care system, and any problems that I may encounter. You can also tell me that it is impossible and go with plastic plants as I am fully aware of this option. But I would like to give the plants a try.

Thanks
 
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#5 ·
So roundhead, thread moved.....

I few months ago I was in your exact situation (except for wanting to keep fish that could eat me). It has always been a dream of mine to have an enormous planted tank like the ones in all the fish magazines. I'm planning on a 240g that I'll set up this summer/fall after we move. I'll make just a few suggestions to you.

I'd recommend very carefully considering what exactly you are trying to accomplish. There is a wide variety of possible options and with a tank this large, some of the equipment that you will need will be fairly expensive, especially when it comes to lighting. I elected to start of with a 46g bowfront since it is small enough to manage but big enough to let me experiment with the plants and see what I liked. I would STRONGLY recommend getting some plant experience with a smaller tank first. A full-blown algae attack in a 300+ gal tank will be an enormous headache. You also don't want to get a few months into the project and find out you made bad decisions on basic hardware items.

You could elect to go with a low-tech setup (usually low-light, +/- CO2, a moderate range of acceptable plants, usually lower maintainance) or a high-tech setup (usually higher lighting, CO2 injection, wide range of acceptable plants, definitely higher maintainance). You could also go with something in between.

I cannot emphasize enough that it would do you well to get a 20g or 50g or something similar to experiment with first. At the scale you are talking about you'll need almost everything to be fully automated. If you plan on intense lighting (anything over 2 or more WPG at this scale) and elect to go with tons of stem plants you'll need probably 10 hours a week dedicated to trimming alone. Most people with big tanks stick to rosette type plants, crypts, slow-growing ferns and anubias, and maybe some vals with a few stem plants thrown in here and there for accent.

You will need to figure out a fertilization plan that is appropriate for your lighting. Until you do, you will likely be plagued by algae. Unfortunately (or maybe you find it interesting & fun), most everyone takes a few months to figure out how to make it work. There are many guidelines available on the forum and elsewhere on the web but you'll need a certain amount of trial and error.

Finally, start a journal thread of your plans here on the forum. There are many people out there that benefit from seeing the ideas of others. Good luck & feel free to ask questions.
 
#6 ·
As far as plants are concerned, sword plants are always a good start. They're hardy, easy to grow and would fit your S. American biotope you want to create.

A good site to see and learn about different plants is on the Tropica website. It's a Danish grower but they have an excellent listing of plants on the market. http://www.tropica.com/default.asp

What you can do is click on "Advanced search" and then select "South America" from the "Continent" drop box on the left column. The page will then list all the South American plants on the species list on the right side of the screen. Clicking on a plant on the list gives you a drawing of the plant, the size, and growing requirements.

Also, Ben Belton wrote an excellent article for the Dallas Fort Worth Aquatic Plant Club at this site http://www.aquatic-plants.org/articles.html.
Planted Tanks: The Basics is a good primer on getting started in planted tanks.

Hope this helps.
Cheers.
Jim
 
#7 ·
Thanks, you guys are awesome.
You're right, I don't think I can handle this size of planted tank with fish.
I will have this tank soon but won't attempt to grow plants in it yet.
And I am grateful for your suggestions to start plants in a smaller tank.
Today one of my 80gal had a burned out flurescent ballast so that is an opportunity for me to get new lighting and start planting.
What do you recommend for an 80gal with the following dimensions: 48L X 18.5W X 23.5H?
Would a 3WPG work for lowlight to highlight plants?
I did some research on powercompact and really don't know what type and brand to get.

Thanks
 
#8 ·
I tried doing the Pygos + plants set up in my 125. It worked with moderate success.

Here's a pic of the tank back when I still had the Pygos:


They were in a 125. I had about 2wpg on the tank. I ended up getting rid of the Pygos because they were ruining my planted tank idea. I think that if you used the right plants, it could work. Swords (echinodorus), Anubias, Crypts, and other more robust plants would work best. Flimsy stem plants (ie: Rotalas) always got torn up by the P's. If your fish decided to breed like mine did a few times, your plants are as good as gone if they're within the chosen nesting site. About once a month my piranhas would go crazy and just mow down an entire section of the tank and dig a spawning pit. Strangely enough I never saw eggs, I guess they were just practicing :p
 
#9 ·
Gumby,
That's what I'm talking about.
I love to get into something like yours.
As for me, my goal is more on trying to establish a natural planted environment to get the harder to breed pirayas to spawn and I am OK if they cut down a few plants.
By the way, did they just chewed off the leafs or did they cut them down to the roots?

Thanks
 
#10 ·
Your 80g would be perfect to start out with. 3 wpg in a tank that size would allow you to grow anything. You'll definately need CO2 with that much light. 1.5-2 wpg for that tank might be ok without CO2. If you can swing it though, CO2 injection will help enormously either way.

CF lighting with good reflectors in the 5500-10000K range is sort of 'the standard'. I'm kind of a DIY guy when it comes to lighting, mostly because the majority of the fixtures on the market with enough light are enormously expensive. AH supply sells some great retrofit/DIY kits that are top-notch. If you prefer the pre-made stuff there are lots of acceptable options out there, but I don't have much experience with them.
 
#11 ·
guaiac_boy said:
Your 80g would be perfect to start out with. 3 wpg in a tank that size would allow you to grow anything. You'll definately need CO2 with that much light. 1.5-2 wpg for that tank might be ok without CO2. If you can swing it though, CO2 injection will help enormously either way.

CF lighting with good reflectors in the 5500-10000K range is sort of 'the standard'. I'm kind of a DIY guy when it comes to lighting, mostly because the majority of the fixtures on the market with enough light are enormously expensive. AH supply sells some great retrofit/DIY kits that are top-notch. If you prefer the pre-made stuff there are lots of acceptable options out there, but I don't have much experience with them.
I've never put together a lighting system; however I love to customize my own stuff. If not too much trouble, would you be able to layout for me the components needed for a complete lighting system?

Thanks in advance.
 
#12 ·
If you want to go with the AH supply stuff you can check out their website:

http://www.ahsupply.com/

They sell all kinds of different sizes and bulbs to go with it. They even sell 48" finished enclosures if you don't want to make one. If you go with them the instructions for everything come with the kit. I haven't heard of anyone having a bad experience with them. If you like woodworking I'd recommend getting the kit first and building a suitable box to go around it so that it all fits.

If you go with a 4x55 kit with the 6700K bulbs you'd be at 2.75 WPG - just about perfect for a high-light setup for this size of tank. If you ever find that you have too much light you could stagger the lights so that all four bulbs are only on for a few hours in the middle of the day.

If you want to see an ugly, but functional box that I made for spiral fluorescents check out this thread:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/do-it-yourself/13727-diy-spiral-compact-fluorescent-fixture.html

There are plently of other options out there too. There are more and more lighting systems on the market now that are taking advantage of T5 lighting. If you go with an open top, metal halides have certain advantages (and disadvantages).
 
#13 ·
Guaiac boy,
Your DIY Spiral Compact doesn't look half bad.
AH is a great source; thanks for the recommendation.
I have a follow-up question for you for the position of the light.
How high above the water level can I place the light fixture?
I wish that I can have a picture to show you, but basically I have this tank on a three level metal rack system with an identical 80gal on the bottom shelf, then 9in above it is the middle shelf which holds this proposed planted tank. And 12in above this tank is the tip top of rack that currently a storage shelf. I like to remove the top shelving and replace it with the light fixture of equal dimenstion as the rack. This 12in clearance b/w the light fixture and the tank will allow me the neccessary space to reach my hand into the tank to do maintenance without having to remove the lighting fixture.
With this 12in of space b/w the light and the water surface, I am thinking that I might have to go with the 4X96w system.
What do you think?

Thanks
 
#14 ·
You'll loose a little light in 12", but the AH Supply reflectors are pretty good. IMO the 4x96 might be too much light, giving you a tank that would be a little hard to manage. Very high light tanks are hard to keep balanced when it comes to nutrients, etc. If something gets out of whack, the algae set up shop very, very quickly. Not to say it can't be done - many plants show their best coloration only under very intense light, but more is not always better.

You could always go with 4x96 and only run 2 at a time if it seems to be too much. I think it would be hard to fit four 36" long lights over a 48" tank, but that's just me.
 
#15 ·
Oh, I forgot to look at the length of the 4X96 kit.
So back to the 4X55 kit because they will have a perfect dimension for my tank. With the bulbs and fixture being 12in above the water level, I would think that the same 6700K bulbs would emit a different spectrum being near the water surface and 12in above the water surface.
If this is the case, what kind of color spectrum and temp bulbs is suitable for my plan. I really don't know much about light and its affect underwater with respect to distance b/w the source and the water level.
Would you be so kind and help me with this.

Thanks
 
#16 ·
The kelvin rating of a bulb is a way to generalize the spectrum (or set of wavelengths) emitted by a light. Wavelength is a basic property of light and doesn't change with distance. Incadescent lights (regular old bulbs with a filament) emit over a broad range of wavelengths. The trouble with them is that they are very inefficient and get rather hot. They also tend to be rather yellow appearing with K ratings of around 2,000K.

Fluorescents generally emit light over more specific ranges of wavelengths. They can also be quirky, emitting a large quantities of light in particular wavelengths and only very little light in others. They are available in a wide variety of Kelvin ratings from 2,000 up to 20,000 and higher. Plants tend to absorb certain wavelengths better than others for the purposes of photosynthesis. Usually, bulbs with a K rating from 5,500 to 10,000K are best. Lower K lights give a more yellow appearance and higher K lights give more of a blue appearance. The distance from the water does not affect this at all.

Intensity of light does decrease as the source (bulb) moves away from the surface of the water. Obviously you can't mount the lights on the ceiling and expect much of it go get into the tank. Good reflectors help quite a bit. Many, many people have their lights mounted up to about 10-12" from the water and they get by perfectly well. Hope this helps.
 
#17 ·
Excellent information Guaiac Boy; thanks for the education.
Now I am confident with the 4X55 kit.
What would be a good substrate or mixture of substrate and fine gravel?
I've read up a little bit on the substrate sub-forum and could not find the type that would suit my needs.
This tank I will house an 8 inch diamond rhom along with a variety of tetras and fast little fish that hopefully can dodge the huge rhom JAW.
This this size of fish, I would think he can kick up alot of finer substrate type.
Would you be able to recommend for me a substrate mix?

Thanks
 
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