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Old 02-09-2016, 08:08 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Help identifying deficiency or toxicity...

Hello folks,

My tank's dimensions are 46"x17"x14" LxWxH

My measurements are from the inside of the glass, so I am not including the thickness of the glass. Also, the height is measured from the top of the substrate to where the surface of the water is. This results in a volume of 47g

When making my macro and micro doses, I calculate for a volume of 45g.

For the past two weeks, I have been dry dosing my macros

Macros 3x a week: Sun Tue Th

1/2 tsp KNO3

6 ppm of K
9.4 ppm of NO3


1/8 tsp KH2PO4

1.2 ppm of K
2.9 ppm of PO4


Micros 3x a week: Sat Mon Wed

Using CSM +B solution 500ml container and dosing 30ml ( .05 iron)

And a separate dose of 1.6ml of flourish iron

Total iron dosed during micro days is .14ppm if my calculations are correct using zorfox's calculator.

I have also been adding 4 3/4 tsp of Nilocs GH booster after water change on Saturdays.

According to zorfox's calculator this should provide,

10ppm of Ca
20ppm of K
2ppm of Mg


Nothing is being done on Fridays.

The tank has been setup for more than a year.

I am using one 48" Dutch style BML light fixture suspended. The distance from the substrate to the light is 21"
And the fixture is set at 100% power.


The tank has two 2217 Eheim filters and using pressurized CO2.

The co2 is set to turn on if the water's pH is > 6.1 (using a Milwaukee Ph controller)



The issues:

Well, most plants seem to be doing well with the exception of my rotalas and some ludwigia (I think)

Here some pictures that could help identifying the deficiency or toxicity.

















Other possible information that could help diagnosed:

Par levels for my light:



My city's water report:



Please let me know if there's any other information needed to help with diagnosing the issue.

Million thanks

Cristian

Last edited by mathman; 02-10-2016 at 11:08 AM..
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Old 02-10-2016, 12:53 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help identifying deficiency or toxicity...

Any ideas?
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Old 02-10-2016, 06:33 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help identifying deficiency or toxicity...

How much iron per week are you adding? 0.14 ppm or 0.42 ppm?

How much CSM+B in grams are you adding?

Great post by the way. Lots of good details and well organized.
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Old 02-10-2016, 07:34 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Help identifying deficiency or toxicity...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapins View Post
How much iron per week are you adding? 0.14 ppm or 0.42 ppm?

How much CSM+B in grams are you adding?

Great post by the way. Lots of good details and well organized.

Thank you Zapins.

According to Zorfox's calculator, I need to add 2.17 grams of CSM+B (approximately 1/2 tsp) to 500ml bottle and dose 30ml to get .05 of iron per dose.

I am dosing three times a week from this solution so that's .15 of iron so far.

It was stated above that I had also been dosing 1.6ml of Flourish Iron; however, I have actually been dosing 5ml, which according to zorfox's calculator, that should provide an extra .3 ppm of iron.

I dose flourish three times a week so that gives a total of .9 of flourish iron for the week.

The total CSM+B and Flourish iron for the entire week is 1.05ppm of iron

I also read on another post from you Zapins (hopefully I am correct) that one should not add no more than .7 ppm of iron a week.

If this is the case, then my dose needs to be rectified. Is my dose of CSM+B correct? Is it too little that my plants may be suffering from some deficiency from another trace?

What's the best combination for me to try at the moment?

How much of CSM+B for the entire week (calculating for iron for a 45g tank), how much of Flourish Iron for the entire week

Thanks

My tank has a lot of plants:



Last edited by mathman; 02-10-2016 at 08:03 PM..
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Old 02-11-2016, 09:41 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Help identifying deficiency or toxicity...

This Saturday is time for my weekly WC. Rather than dosing that much Iron per week (currently 1.05 ppm)

I will reduce my dose by continuing to use my micro solution (CSM+B) catered to a .05ppm of iron per dose. This will be dosed three times a week for a total of .15ppm.

I will also continue to use Flourish iron, but rather than dosing 5ml I will try 2ml three times a week.

So,

Iron per week using CSM+B .15ppm

Iron per week using flourish iron .351 ppm

Total iron for the week: .5ppm


This will take me under the suggested "no more than .7 ppm of iron per week"

Questions:

Should I dose CSM+B and Flourish Iron on the same day or is it best to dose On separate days that way there's some iron added 6 days of the week.

Is .15ppm per week of CSM+B enough to avoid any other deficiency such as boron?

Thanks
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Old 02-12-2016, 06:02 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help identifying deficiency or toxicity...

From what I see the plants seem to have new growth only symptoms. Which leads me towards a deficiency of one of the immobile elements. Assuming all your and Zorfox's calculations are correct it seems you are adding enough of everything for the plants to grow well except possibly traces.

The safe limit for CSM+B and iron hasn't been figured out 100% yet, but problems seem to appear around 2 ppm of CSM+B per week from what I've seen in other people's posts. On the flip side of that coin, the minimum also hasn't been determined very well either and changes with each person's unique tank conditions. With that said I'd venture a guess that your issue is with a lack of one of the traces. It doesn't seem to be likely that iron is deficient with you adding over 1 ppm per week. I wonder if this problem isn't a lack of one of the other micros, possibly boron.

Try increasing the dose of CSM+B so you are adding about 0.2 ppm per dose for a total of 0.6 ppm for the week. Then just reduce your flourish iron so the total iron doesn't go beyond about 1 ppm.

If the issue is micros then you should see the plants growing healthy new tissues within a week or so.
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Old 02-12-2016, 01:27 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help identifying deficiency or toxicity...

It looks like much of your iron and or traces are percipitating and collecting on your plants. You are adding 2.9ppm of P04 3 times a week/8.7ppm a week. If I dose much more than 2.9ppm a week I get the same problem. My advice is to cut back on the KH2P04.

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Old 02-12-2016, 08:33 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help identifying deficiency or toxicity...

Quote:
Originally Posted by silversea View Post
It looks like much of your iron and or traces are percipitating and collecting on your plants. You are adding 2.9ppm of P04 3 times a week/8.7ppm a week. If I dose much more than 2.9ppm a week I get the same problem. My advice is to cut back on the KH2P04.

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Interesting. So, in your tank, you are adding 3ppm of KH2PO4 a week. How heavily planted is your tank? Are you Only dosing 1 ppm three times week?
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Old 02-12-2016, 09:21 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help identifying deficiency or toxicity...

Heavily planted roughly 0.97ppm 3x week but currently only twice this week due to big trim.

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Old 04-06-2016, 10:23 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help identifying deficiency or toxicity...

It looks to me as though you are adding all the nutrients that the plants need but the iron may not be in a form that they can use. I suggest adding a small amount of cider vinegar (1/2 tsp to 1 tsp) to the solution with iron before adding to the tank. This unbind the iron and make it more bioavailable.
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