Holes in older leaves. EI Dosing - Plant Deficiencies

Arkaeus · 03-07-2018, 05:48 AM

Last night inspecting the new tank and looking at everything I noticed what is in the pics below. What are they telling me? what are they deficient in? Potassium?
Also note, I purchased a lot of these plants from Petco in the sealed packs with gel in them. I have seen growth, but I want to make sure this isn't the old leaves just dying off.

EI Dosing Schedule :
Mon Wed Fri – 3xs week
• 1/16 tsp CSM+B
Tue Thur – 2xs week
• 1/4 tsp KNO3
• 1/16 tsp KH2PO4
• 1/16 tsp K2SO4
Sat - Rest
Sun – Water change
• 1/4 tsp KNO3
• 1/16 tsp KH2PO4
• 50% Water Change
• 1 tsp GH Booster

I'm wondering if I should up my K2SO4 and KNO3 dosing?

DutchMuch · 03-07-2018, 06:08 AM

no i dont think its old leaves dying.
Definitely a deficiency in something, pretty sure its potassium.

Arkaeus · 03-07-2018, 09:07 AM

Thank you Dutch, if I up my Mono Potassium Phosphate and Potassium Nitrate will this help me out? I was going to try and dose 1/8 instead of 1/16 of the powder. Or....Should I buy some Seachem Potassium?

DutchMuch · 03-07-2018, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkaeus

Thank you Dutch, if I up my Mono Potassium Phosphate and Potassium Nitrate will this help me out? I was going to try and dose 1/8 instead of 1/16 of the powder. Or....Should I buy some Seachem Potassium?

Not sure about this, I'm not a big in depth fert guy. I keep my shiz simple lol, i would ask HoppyCalif.

hoppycalif · 03-07-2018, 10:10 AM

I always dose about twice the EI recommended dosage for KH2PO4, mostly to help avoid green spot algae. I have never seen a reason not to do so. Nitrates, KNO3, is different. I dose about half the recommended amount, and add potassium sulfate to make up the difference for potassium. I find my nitrate level stays at a more reasonable value when I do this.

I think a nitrate test kit is a good thing to have. It isn't critical, but it is good for finding out if your nitrates are reasonably stable.

Seattle_Aquarist · 03-07-2018, 10:12 AM

Hi @Arkaeus

A few quick questions please:

What size tank?
How long have the plants been in it?
Do you know any of your water parameters? (pH, dKH, dGH, NO3 ppm, PO4 ppm)

I can't say if you are losing the older leaves because they were grown emersed or if it is a potassium issue. I can tell you that it appears a likelycalcium (Ca) deficiency and a possible magnesium (Mg) deficiency.

Quote:

I

I. Symptoms appearing first or most severely on new growth (root and shoot tips, new leaves)

A. Terminal bud usually dies. Symptoms on new growth.

2. Necrosis occurs at tip and margin of leaves causing a definite hook at leaf tip.
Calcium is essential for the growth of shoot and root tips (meristems). Growing point dies. Margins of young leaves are scalloped and abnormally green and, due to inhibition of cell wall formation, the leaf tips may be "gelatinous" and stuck together inhibiting leaf unfolding. Stem structure is weak and peduncle collapse or stem topple may occur. Roots are stunted. Downward curl of leaf tips (hooking) occurs near terminal bud. ammonium or magnesium excess may induce a calcium deficiency in plants... calcium deficiency

Differentiating between calcium and boron deficiency symptoms: When calcium is deficient, there is a characteristic hooking of the youngest leaf tips. However, when boron is deficient, the breakdown occurs at the bases of the youngest leaves. Death of the terminal growing points is the final result in both cases.

Quote:

II. Symptoms do not appear first or most severely on youngest leaves: Effect general on whole plant or localized on older, lower leaves.

C. Interveinal chlorosis. Interveinal chlorosis first appears on oldest leaves.

1. Older leaves chlorotic, usually necrotic in late stages. Chlorosis along leaf margins extending between veins produces a "Christmas tree" pattern. Veins normal green. Leaf margins may curl downward or upward with puckering effect. Necrosis may suddenly occur between veins. Potassium or calcium excess can inhibit uptake of magnesium...magnesium deficiency

When the external magnesium supply is deficient, interveinal chlorosis of the older leaves is the first symptom because as the magnesium of the chlorophyll is remobilized, the mesophyll cells next to the vascular bundles retain chlorophyll for longer periods than do the parenchyma cells between them. Leaves lose green color at tips and between veins followed by chlorosis or development of brilliant colors, starting with lower leaves and proceeding upwards. The chlorosis/brilliant colors (unmasking of other leaf pigments due to the lack of chlorophyll) may start at the leaf margins or tips and progress inward interveinally producing a "Christmas" tree pattern. Leaves are abnormally thin, plants are brittle and branches have a tendency to curve upward. Stems are weak, subject to fungus infection, usually leaves drop prematurely.

Arkaeus · 03-09-2018, 06:10 AM

A few quick questions please:

What size tank? 40 Breeder
How long have the plants been in it? Tank has been setup for about 3 weeks. Some of the plants I had from a previous 29 biocube. Some of the plants purchased from local shops and petco.
Do you know any of your water parameters? (pH, dKH, dGH, NO3 ppm, PO4 ppm) Not exactly, but I do know my Ph is 6.84 low 7.4 high, night and midday. I may need to purchase a few tests kits. I do use RO/DI water, but add GH booster. Maybe I am not adding enough....

Is this an okay Mag to dose? https://www.amazon.com/Magnesium-Sul...nesium+Sulfate

Tanks journal is it helps https://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...0-breeder.html

Arkaeus · 03-12-2018, 06:36 AM

got a few numbers!

API test- GH, honestly I added about 20 drops before giving up and not seeing the yellow turn green. So on this one I have no clue.

KH- API @4
Nyos Carbonate Hardness @3
Red Sea- Calcium was low at 25ppm.

When I did the 50% water change last night I added 2tsp of powdered GH, hoping to retest today and see whats up.

hoppycalif · 03-12-2018, 07:33 AM

When the GH test kits I have used deteriorated they behaved as you described. I once had to buy 3 kits before I got one that still worked right. My impression was that API GH test kits were the worst ones. That was a few years ago, so I don't remember which one worked well.

Arkaeus · 03-12-2018, 12:38 PM

I may have to look into another test kit. This one is about two years old from my saltwater days. So reading online... from what I understand I should have a target of
KH- 4 to 8 should aim for 5
GH- 6 to 12 aim for 10
PH- 6.8 to 7.2

I'm understanding my issues at the moment should be KH and GH since I use RO/DI water and do not add anything to it. I'm looking to add baking soda to my 32-gallon water station with dolomite lime to help this. Do we have any charts to do this or is it add, test, add, test, repeat?

Also like to add, I really want to be able to have cherry shrimp.