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-   -   Algae and Iron (https://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/144045-algae-iron.html)

mistergreen 01-29-2020 02:05 PM

Re: Algae and Iron
 
How will you test for Fe? This sounds like a tough experiment to work out?
So algae will be your indicator? I wonder if you can collect and dry the algae and burn it and find left over iron.

Stan510 01-29-2020 02:46 PM

Re: Algae and Iron
 
The plants you chose are not the best to show a difference. They really should be plants like Hygrophila or Sagittaria or other all green plants that show a flush of greenness on the iron. Except for Vallisneria..it might even be greener with no iron in the water. Always exceptions.

hoppycalif 01-29-2020 03:28 PM

Re: Algae and Iron
 
The plants iin the tanks are Sagittaria subulata and a hybred swordplant, plus floating Salvinia. I'm not interested in the effect on the plants, because it is well proven that iron helps the plants. My interest is the effect on algae, primarily on the effect vs the amount of light the iron fertilized water gets. I'm very interested in the idea that iron shortage can inhibit algae growth.

Stan510 01-30-2020 07:35 AM

Re: Algae and Iron
 
Dont use any plants. I can tell you,you can can grow pounds of hair algae in aquariums that never see a drop of IG,plus spot and blue green. A third aquarium with backyard dirt would also feed hair algae. It also minus a drop of iron. MY "Prediction" because I've done it!

Stan510 01-30-2020 08:44 AM

Re: Algae and Iron
 
2 Attachment(s)
btw,That sword plant that for the last year,was super struggling to grow 4" leaves? IS IN DIRT. Its one of the first plants I added..I used garden soils and sands..with an inch or so of sand. From,oh, October of 2018- Nov.2019 it came close to dying..I had even just cut off every leaf at one point. Just a bud.
And now....virtually all this since late November.

one more,The last Prof. Scientist I worked for loved the way I wrote my notes I left him. Had a sense of humor did he.

hoppycalif 02-17-2020 02:50 PM

Re: Algae and Iron
 
My experiment is starting!! The two tanks are now pretty well established, with no obvious algae, almost exactly the same plants in each, same light, same substrate, and a Betta in each one. Tonight I will start dosing Flourish Iron, to get 0.10 ppm in the water in each tank, dosed after lights out at night, every other night. If all goes well, I will get no obvious algae. After about 2 or 3 weeks, I will change the dosing time for one tank to right after the light comes on.

Now I need a Swiss trolley to ride in so I can get a brainstorm going!!

mysiak 02-18-2020 01:15 AM

Re: Algae and Iron
 
I'm sorry if I missed something, but Flourish contains Iron gluconate and it is being said to be uptaken very rapidly by plants (or broken down if plants can't fully utilize it). Do plants or algae consume nutrients during night?

It sounds like you're just adding additional step in iron availability:

Dosed with lights on: Iron gluconate -> Iron -> Plants/algae
Dosed with lights off: Iron gluconate -> Iron -> "some other organic Iron molecule" -> (light) -> Iron -> Plants/algae

From what I read, Iron gluconate seems to be so bio-available, that it might be impossible to detect any Iron even 1 hour after dosing during photosynthesis period (unlike other chelators).

But again, maybe I just got the wrong end of the stick. :)

hoppycalif 02-18-2020 11:08 AM

Re: Algae and Iron
 
Dosing the iron, in low dosages, at night should cause all of it to be taken in by the plants, or attached to dissolved organic carbon in the water, leaving none for the algae. But, dosing iron as the light comes on may cause the iron attached to organic carbon to be released into the water as Fe ions, if photo reduction occurs with the level of light intensity we use. That would make it more available to algae, as well as to the plants. And, that might cause algae to start growing vigorously. I expect to see no algae response, because I expect that photo reduction is trivial at the level of light intensity we use. I wouldn't bother with this if I had never had an algae problem at low aquarium light levels. It would be very interesting if I do get an algae growth response. Meanwhile, I will be convincing myself that I can get two tanks to grow without algae problems, making additional testing possible.

mysiak 02-18-2020 09:28 PM

Re: Algae and Iron
 
Thank you for the explanation, but I still must be missing something :)

Dosing with lights off
- let's consider the "worst" case scenario, all of the Iron will get re-attached from Gluconate to another organic carbon. Once you turn on the lights at certain intensity, Iron gets released and consumed by plants (and algae).
- the best case scenario - all of the Iron is consumed by plants during night. But why not by algae as well?

Dosing with lights on
- Iron gluconate is consumed either directly or broken down rapidly and Iron released and consumed by plants and algae.

Nevertheless interesting setup for experiments. I am curious if you'll see any major difference in plants growth with this different dosing schedule while using Iron gluconate particularly.

hoppycalif 02-19-2020 07:15 AM

Re: Algae and Iron
 
I don't think you are missing anything. It seems that nothing in an aquarium is a simple thing. I got interested in this when I read about the possibility that algae is handicapped by being able to get iron only from the water, but bioavailable iron in the water is rapidly removed. That made me wonder why algae is such a big problem in aquariums. The photo reduction idea might be a big factor. I will be astonished if I see a major difference with my little experiment, but I will be enjoying trying to do such an experiment, so it doesn't really matter.


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