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-   -   Pruning timeline... (https://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquascaping/57960-pruning-timeline.html)

Ghazanfar Ghori 12-11-2008 09:30 AM

Pruning timeline...
 
Let me preface this thread by first saying, these pictures were not intended for this purpose, I just happened to take some pictures frequently enough to put this together. There are a few pictures 'missing' in the sequence. Use your imagination to fill in the blanks!

This picture was taken about 6 weeks after initial planting. The marselia has grown in very quickly, stem plants are growing in strong, but algae is rampant! I believe that atleast one pruning has already been done at the point this picture was taken. The bottoms were left in and the tops replanted to fill in empty spaces.
http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/p...0P/prune_1.jpg


A few weeks later, algae is on its way out and the plants are growing in really well.
http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/p...0P/prune_3.jpg



Heavy duty pruning is done. This pruning is done so that only 3-4 nodes are left above the substrate level. This is to encourage side shoots from each planted stem. A few tops were replanted, but most were discarded. Picture is missing. Imagine a BARE tank. With good ferts, plants bounce back quick.


A few weeks later...the plants are growing back with multiple shoots from each planted stem. However, they're all over the place when it comes to growth rates and sizes. Another pruning is in order - this time to give the plant groupings some shape and definition.
http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/p...0P/prune_2.jpg



Several weeks later, taking into account growth rates of different plants, a severe pruning is done. This will be the final pruning before the 'money' shot. Growth resulting from this pruning will be lush, thick and the shapes will be well defined. Sean Murphy happened to drop by the day after this was done and I quote "What the #$#!! did you do in there!!!" I assured him I knew what I was doing here. Take note of the different heights and angles at which the plants were cut back. Tops were given away and not replanted - we want even growth rates (within each plant group) here - very important.
http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/p...0P/prune_4.jpg



A few weeks later, the plants have grown back in. Things are looking NEAR optimal, though still not 100% perfect, however, this demonstrates some basic pruning techniques and the results thereof. Hope you get some insight from these pictures...
http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/p...0P/prune_5.jpg

Bert H 12-11-2008 10:07 AM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
Those are very helpful, thanks Ghazanfar!

In my tanks, one problem with this technique is that by the time my stems approach the tank top, the bottom portions look rather ratty, leafwise. I don't really see the bottoms of yours looking too badly here. Is this something you deal with, or is your lighting intense enough you don't have this problem?

wet 12-11-2008 11:31 AM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
Thank you!

jargonchipmunk 12-11-2008 11:36 AM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
from the looks of it, he pruned OFF the bottoms. (almost) I'm assuming this encourages enough outward growth, and side-shoots and any previous leaf damage (from lower light under the tops, or algae spotting) would be completely hidden by the new growth. not to mention when he topped the plants the first few times, I'd assume he had the option of using those stems to hide some of the problem areas if indeed there were any.

or maybe he's a much better aquarist than I am and never sees algae (although his first posts reveal he is indeed human)

Nice "writeup" by the way, although I know that's not what the pics were meant to be. Still nice to see the trim technique even in a vague sense, and then see the results on a timeline like that.

Thanks :-)

Ghazanfar Ghori 12-11-2008 11:50 AM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bert H (Post 435816)
Those are very helpful, thanks Ghazanfar!

In my tanks, one problem with this technique is that by the time my stems approach the tank top, the bottom portions look rather ratty, leafwise. I don't really see the bottoms of yours looking too badly here. Is this something you deal with, or is your lighting intense enough you don't have this problem?

The stems come back really thick - ratty bottoms I assure you are there - but you don't see them.
Each pruning is done at a slightly greater height than the previous one - that way you're pruning the side shoots, not the exact stem you planted. After 3-4 of those types of prunings, you'll get a nice thick bunch. Eventually,
you'll need to really hack it back to 'start over'. Some stems bounce back from this easily (rotalas) - others, not so much (stellatas).

chagovatoloco 12-11-2008 12:04 PM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
I really appreciate this thread, thank you. When you prune the stem plants are you replanting the cut off stems to thicken up the bunch or are you just relying on side shoots? I am so glad this topic was brought up, I wish there was more on this topic.

bigstick120 12-11-2008 03:57 PM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
This is great Ghaz! Thanks for posting it. I have made it a sticky it as I think this will help a lot of folks to actually see how to trim. I know after your talk at the meeting I have been doing this and am able to get a much larger grouping of plants.

As you said some things bounce back, some dont. The plants have to be very healthy to come back from such a massive prune as well.

orlando 12-11-2008 04:16 PM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigstick120 (Post 435869)
This is great Ghaz! Thanks for posting it. I have made it a sticky it as I think this will help a lot of folks to actually see how to trim. I know after your talk at the meeting I have been doing this and am able to get a much larger grouping of plants.

As you said some things bounce back, some dont. The plants have to be very healthy to come back from such a massive prune as well.


I was just about to say! This should be a Sticky:)

Well done for the community.

Regards, Orlando

orlando 12-11-2008 04:18 PM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
Also! I guess you could say, when in doubt don't be afraid to hack!

-O

BryceM 12-11-2008 06:13 PM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
Great thread!!!

Thanks Ghazanfar.

It's shocking that algae would dare make an appearance in one of your setups.

I was astonished the first time I saw the guys at AquaForest in San Fran mutilate their giant display tank. They were mercilessly mowing it down to within an inch or two of the substrate.

I then went home and tried the same thing with excellent results.

Freeman said it best: "Plants love scissors!"

With taller aquariums it's important to not let the growth get too high before cutting it way back. If you do the lower portions will be too far gone to regenerate nice growth.

Thanks for sharing!

AaronT 12-11-2008 06:51 PM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BryceM (Post 435912)

With taller aquariums it's important to not let the growth get too high before cutting it way back. If you do the lower portions will be too far gone to regenerate nice growth.

An excellent point. This is part of the reason for sloping the substrate so much higher in the back of the tank.

Bunbuku 12-12-2008 02:57 AM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
Great thread!!

Will the trimming technique and timing be the same if one is interested in preserving a good looking scape long term (as opposed to maximizing the appearance for the perfect shot)?

AaronT 12-12-2008 06:01 AM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunbuku (Post 435963)
Great thread!!

Will the trimming technique and timing be the same if one is interested in preserving a good looking scape long term (as opposed to maximizing the appearance for the perfect shot)?

No, the technique is the same for long-term scapes. I've topped the same group of Rotalas 15+ times before replanting them.

davemonkey 12-13-2008 06:41 AM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
Great post! This was VERY helpful to me as I am just now considering whether a good 'hacking' of my stems would help or hurt me. My stems are at a point where they need to be shaped, but I have let them get lanky at teh bottoms and bushy at the tops. Now I see that I should not be afraid to hack it off!

Off to get my scissors... :axe:

-Dave

nfrank 12-13-2008 06:59 AM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
This would be a good site to list those stem plants and tanks conditiosn that might not be appropriate for "hacking" to get the stems to be bushy and still look nice. For example: Rotala macrandra. I typically hack off the tops many times but have noticed that eventually the bottoms develop a large mass of roots and have to be replaced with the tops. In the past, i have mostly had low amounts of nutrients in the water column and did not have rich substrates.

So, ...
(1) what are the stem plants that dont like hacking?
(2) are there certain tank conditions that are more appropriate for the hacking approach?
(3) can we prevent the lower stems from developing too many roots?

If there is interest, this should move to a separate thred. If so, add a link from this popular sticky.
--Neil

Sunstar 12-13-2008 07:11 AM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronT (Post 435970)
No, the technique is the same for long-term scapes. I've topped the same group of Rotalas 15+ times before replanting them.


I might consider doing this with flourite added to the substrate when I do. that way I can yoink out the old plants, replace with new ones but mingle flourite or remove old substrate alltogether in spot areas. Think that would work? That would keep my happy bacterial alive in other spots and not cause a full cycle. Hmmmmmm

AaronT 12-13-2008 07:34 AM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunstar (Post 436202)
I might consider doing this with flourite added to the substrate when I do. that way I can yoink out the old plants, replace with new ones but mingle flourite or remove old substrate alltogether in spot areas. Think that would work? That would keep my happy bacterial alive in other spots and not cause a full cycle. Hmmmmmm


I'm not sure I follow what you're asking? The method of trimming stems discussed in this thread doesn't involve uprooting any plants at all.

AaronT 12-13-2008 07:37 AM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nfrank (Post 436199)
This would be a good site to list those stem plants and tanks conditiosn that might not be appropriate for "hacking" to get the stems to be bushy and still look nice. For example: Rotala macrandra. I typically hack off the tops many times but have noticed that eventually the bottoms develop a large mass of roots and have to be replaced with the tops. In the past, i have mostly had low amounts of nutrients in the water column and did not have rich substrates.

So, ...
(1) what are the stem plants that dont like hacking?
(2) are there certain tank conditions that are more appropriate for the hacking approach?
(3) can we prevent the lower stems from developing too many roots?

If there is interest, this should move to a separate thred. If so, add a link from this popular sticky.
--Neil

There's not real way to avoid adventitious roots. Some plants will have them and others won't. A well planned aquascape always hides the lower portions of stem plants in the backround.

Rotalas are by far the easiest to hack back and let them regrow. It can also be done with Hygrophilas, Limnophilas, Ludwigias and several others.

Tonina fluviatilis is one that will not respond well to being hacked down.

Ghazanfar Ghori 12-13-2008 08:02 AM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nfrank (Post 436199)

(1) what are the stem plants that dont like hacking?
(2) are there certain tank conditions that are more appropriate for the hacking approach?
(3) can we prevent the lower stems from developing too many roots?


Aaron is right on the money with his answer there. Rotalas, hygros, ludwigias - basically any stem plant that produces side shoots readily can be hacked back. The more easily the plant produces side shoots, the better it will be suited for this type of pruning. That said - this type of pruning is usually used for scaping. Before you start scaping, you should always know how specific plants grow in your tank / conditions. Most folks already start off that way - experimenting with different plants - gaining experience growing them, pruning them etc. With that knowledge, you should be able to make a good decision weather to hack back or not.

Tank conditions more appropriate for the hacking approach - high growth stem plant tanks are best suited. You don't want that tank to look bare for more than a week or two - just ugly!

As for the lower stems producing roots - I haven't found a way to prevent that - not that I've tried - the bottoms don't usually pose a problem because they're always well hidden beneath or hidden behind the hardscape. If you're able to see the ratty bottoms, you're doing something wrong - either from the pruning perspective or the scaping perspective - or it may just be time to start that group of plants over again with fresh stems.

Tex Gal 12-13-2008 08:20 AM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghazanfar Ghori (Post 435829)
The stems come back really thick - ratty bottoms I assure you are there - but you don't see them.
Each pruning is done at a slightly greater height than the previous one - that way you're pruning the side shoots, not the exact stem you planted. After 3-4 of those types of prunings, you'll get a nice thick bunch. Eventually,
you'll need to really hack it back to 'start over'. Some stems bounce back from this easily (rotalas) - others, not so much (stellatas).

Thanks for this thread. It's very informative. I am somewhat amazed/confused by this last statement. I understand what your saying but, when I look at the last px of the trim you did, I can't imagine that the 3 or 4 previous trims were actually shorter than this one, in all the plant sections! Some of them are so short now, that if they had been trimmed 3 or 4 times, how would there have been any left to grow out!??

By your statement 3 or 4 nodes left you are referring to leaf groupings along the stem, is that correct?

So as Neil brought up - what does one do with R. Macrandra? Do you just go ahead and trim not worrying about the massive root systems it gets? It does branch out some but not as much as some of the other stemmies.

The other thing I find, is that I end up with massive tops, fully branched, that become so heavy in proportion to the bottoms that they end up floating up. Perhaps I'm waiting too long to trim and therefore trimming up to high? All I know is the big tops can't be secured by the little bottoms.




nfrank 12-13-2008 08:40 AM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghazanfar Ghori (Post 436213)
Aaron is right on the money with his answer there. Rotalas, hygros, ludwigias - basically any stem plant that produces side shoots readily can be hacked back. The more easily the plant produces side shoots, the better it will be suited for this type of pruning. .

Thanks Aaron and GG. Those were the replies i was looking for.

I am not a stem plant guy , and not a aquascaper per se, so my experience in this arena is somewhat limited. However, one new plant that i have recently fallen in love which does not seem to have the ratty bottom issue is is Rotala verticillaris. It seems to behave different than other Rotala in that it puts out side shoots -- from the substrate-- without top trimming. It also seems to grow at less than half the rate as R. macrandra. In the new Amazonia, the macrandra has required weekly trimming. In my 4-week old substrate, the R.verticillaris has not been trimmed once. I may finally do it next week, but i am still somewhate reluctant because i am really enjoying the new fine leaves that it did not have in my older lower light tank. There, it produced thicker leaves that resembled emersed growth. The new 24" deep tank is under 4 T5 HO Geismanns. The older 16" deep tank with mature sand/peat substrate was illuminated with 4 NO T-12 Triton bulbs. There are many other differences besides lighting and substrate which might explain the verticillaris. In that slower grow tank, the macrandra also grew relative fast and required frequent trimming. On the other hand,
I dont think i topped the R.v in the several months i kept it. When i took the tank down last month, the small number of starting R.v stems had multiplied maybe 10-fold.
Another plant that does not seem to develop many annoying lower stem roots is the asian "pearl grass." One that is among the worst that i have seen is Ludwigia repens.
--Neil

Mugatu 12-13-2008 10:56 AM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
Very informative thread Ghazanfar.

Couple quick questions for the forum. (I'm running into a couple of problems with excessive root development and requiring to trim on a weekly basis. I'm planning to do a little re-scaping. I've decrease the light interval)

1. When you plant the stems, do you plant them individually or in small groups of 2-3s to ensure the bushiness appearance?

2. How frequent do you decide to uproot the plants and replant with new cuttings to keep everything fresh?

Thanks.

adechazal 12-13-2008 12:52 PM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
Thank you SO much for that sequential set of photos. This changes everything for me, until now I have not been able to figure out how you all get your tanks so full of bushy stem plants. I think I need to start working on different elevations of substrate as well. It's chop time!:D

AaronT 12-13-2008 01:46 PM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nfrank (Post 436226)
Thanks Aaron and GG. Those were the replies i was looking for.

I am not a stem plant guy , and not a aquascaper per se, so my experience in this arena is somewhat limited. However, one new plant that i have recently fallen in love which does not seem to have the ratty bottom issue is is Rotala verticillaris. It seems to behave different than other Rotala in that it puts out side shoots -- from the substrate-- without top trimming. It also seems to grow at less than half the rate as R. macrandra. In the new Amazonia, the macrandra has required weekly trimming. In my 4-week old substrate, the R.verticillaris has not been trimmed once. I may finally do it next week, but i am still somewhate reluctant because i am really enjoying the new fine leaves that it did not have in my older lower light tank. There, it produced thicker leaves that resembled emersed growth. The new 24" deep tank is under 4 T5 HO Geismanns. The older 16" deep tank with mature sand/peat substrate was illuminated with 4 NO T-12 Triton bulbs. There are many other differences besides lighting and substrate which might explain the verticillaris. In that slower grow tank, the macrandra also grew relative fast and required frequent trimming. On the other hand,
I dont think i topped the R.v in the several months i kept it. When i took the tank down last month, the small number of starting R.v stems had multiplied maybe 10-fold.
Another plant that does not seem to develop many annoying lower stem roots is the asian "pearl grass." One that is among the worst that i have seen is Ludwigia repens.
--Neil

In acquiring a picture of the flower of Rotala verticillaris it's been discovered (by Cavan of course) that it's not a Rotala at all, but rather a Pogostemon! That's likely the reason for the slower growth, though I've never had trouble using the hacking method on that particular stem. It has been shown to be quite variable in size and leaf shape from tank to tank within our club.

nfrank 12-13-2008 03:27 PM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronT (Post 436300)
In acquiring a picture of the flower of Rotala verticillaris it's been discovered (by Cavan of course) that it's not a Rotala at all, but rather a Pogostemon!

It doesnt surprise me that it is not a Rotala. The growth pattern is so different.

Does that mean there is another plant out there which is the true Rotala verticillaris, the type specimen for the genus? [ Linneaus described the type specimen for this genus, Rotala verticillaris, in 1771.]

Let see what is the lineage of the plant circulating thru the US hobby as Rotala verticillaris. I aquired mine from Ben Bolten several months ago. I believe he got his from GG. How far back can we go?
--Neil

AaronT 12-13-2008 03:37 PM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nfrank (Post 436331)
It doesnt surprise me that it is not a Rotala. The growth pattern is so different.

Does that mean there is another plant out there which is the true Rotala verticillaris, the type specimen for the genus? [ Linneaus described the type specimen for this genus, Rotala verticillaris, in 1771.]

Let see what is the lineage of the plant circulating thru the US hobby as Rotala verticillaris. I aquired mine from Ben Bolten several months ago. I believe he got his from GG. How far back can we go?
--Neil

It was introduced into the US hobby by a friend of mine in Hawaii who brought it back from Japan. He gave it to another friend of his in Hawaii and I bought a few stems from him last year sometime. I passed it to Ghazanfar and some others in the club and now it's everywhere. :)

ingg 12-13-2008 03:52 PM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
Blame Aaron for the Verticillaris, that's as far back as I know it, hehe.

Awesome plant, I'm debating using it in my 180g rescape, grows slow enough ot be controllable in there.

Tex Gal 12-13-2008 03:57 PM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
I'm also thinking about putting it in my 125g.




Ghazanfar Ghori 12-13-2008 04:22 PM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex Gal (Post 436220)
Thanks for this thread. It's very informative. I am somewhat amazed/confused by this last statement. I understand what your saying but, when I look at the last px of the trim you did, I can't imagine that the 3 or 4 previous trims were actually shorter than this one, in all the plant sections! Some of them are so short now, that if they had been trimmed 3 or 4 times, how would there have been any left to grow out!??

By your statement 3 or 4 nodes left you are referring to leaf groupings along the stem, is that correct?

True, the last pruning I did was more for shape than for bushiness and it was fairly short towards the front, but fairly tall in the back.

Yes - 3-4 nodes = 3-4 segments of the plant - where the leaves attach to the plant. Some plants can be hacked back further - but I left it at 3-4 segments in this thread since I don't want someone to go hack everything back to 1 node and kill everything off. :)

Ghazanfar Ghori 12-13-2008 04:26 PM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mugatu (Post 436263)
V
1. When you plant the stems, do you plant them individually or in small groups of 2-3s to ensure the bushiness appearance?

2. How frequent do you decide to uproot the plants and replant with new cuttings to keep everything fresh?

Thicker stems like P. stellata / Ammania gracilis etc are planted individually. Thinner stems like Rotala sp. Can be planted in 2-3 stems per group.


How frequent to uproot - it varies on a per plant basis. Some are champs and bounce back everytime. Others get slower and slower bouncing back - eventually you need to uproot and replant (time for a new scape!)

Bunbuku 12-14-2008 06:01 AM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
This thread has given me the audacity to trim!

I have a dumb question, here goes.....For stems that have big root balls, uprooting can be a big mess. Will cutting the old stems off at the substrate and replanting new stems over it work?

Tex Gal 12-14-2008 06:35 AM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
The El Natural people do this all the time. They use it as a source of nutrition for the plants. I always worry because that will rot under there and bacteria will grow. You'll have a huge pocket for ammonia and sulfur gasses to form. I guess if you don't ever disturb that place until it is taken up by other plants you are fine. I know when I have had a bulb rot I have seen a bubble of the sulfur gas released from time to time. Wonder what others have to say?....




rodrigaj 12-14-2008 09:17 AM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunbuku (Post 436455)
This thread has given me the audacity to trim!

I have a dumb question, here goes.....For stems that have big root balls, uprooting can be a big mess. Will cutting the old stems off at the substrate and replanting new stems over it work?

Aside from the fact that the left over biomass will rot, there is the more practical problem of have a ball of roots under the gravel which will make replanting in that location difficult.

I always shut down the filter, pull out the stem and as much of the root ball as I can get. I shake out the gravel and replant. The mess in the water column settles and I vacuum out as much as I can get.

Plants like my Echinodorous kleiner bar can get so root bound that pulling it out of the substrate disturbs a huge area around the plant. The roots are entwined with the plants that grow around it. Everything gets pulled out and replanted as a result. A huge mess is created. But that's the way it is.

nfrank 12-14-2008 09:22 AM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex Gal (Post 436472)
The El Natural people do this all the time. They use it as a source of nutrition for the plants. I always worry because that will rot under there and bacteria will grow. ?....

Yes, bacteria will grow and it will be anaerobic ....and while it will eventually provide a source of nutrients, it is not the ideal environment for new plants as old stuff decomposes. Plants with large white roots, like Echinodorus can tolerate that environment because their sturdy roots will pump O2 creating a more favorable environment. However, it will likley be a larger struggle for many stem plants..., so getting the stuff out is best.

Regarding a large mass of root , you can try to lift out a small section at a time. I dont yank the entire plant all at once. This will usually create a mess. Instead, I get my fingers down in the substrate and try to pull up individual roots. This should leave behind the attached substrate particles and not make as much mess. Cavaet: I have done this with sand and fluorite and not with softer materials like ADA Aquasoil.

HeyPK 12-14-2008 09:53 AM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nfrank (Post 436226)
Thanks Aaron and GG. Those were the replies i was looking for.

I am not a stem plant guy , and not a aquascaper per se, so my experience in this arena is somewhat limited. However, one new plant that i have recently fallen in love which does not seem to have the ratty bottom issue is is Rotala verticillaris. It seems to behave different than other Rotala in that it puts out side shoots -- from the substrate-- without top trimming. It also seems to grow at less than half the rate as R. macrandra. In the new Amazonia, the macrandra has required weekly trimming. In my 4-week old substrate, the R.verticillaris has not been trimmed once. I may finally do it next week, but i am still somewhate reluctant because i am really enjoying the new fine leaves that it did not have in my older lower light tank. There, it produced thicker leaves that resembled emersed growth. The new 24" deep tank is under 4 T5 HO Geismanns. The older 16" deep tank with mature sand/peat substrate was illuminated with 4 NO T-12 Triton bulbs. There are many other differences besides lighting and substrate which might explain the verticillaris. In that slower grow tank, the macrandra also grew relative fast and required frequent trimming. On the other hand,
I dont think i topped the R.v in the several months i kept it. When i took the tank down last month, the small number of starting R.v stems had multiplied maybe 10-fold.
Another plant that does not seem to develop many annoying lower stem roots is the asian "pearl grass." One that is among the worst that i have seen is Ludwigia repens.
--Neil

According to Cavan, Rotala verticillaris may not be a Rotala at all, but rather a Pogostemon! He is doing more research on it.

Tex Gal 12-14-2008 09:59 AM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
That Cavan! What would we do without him?! I hope we never have to find out! :D




Bunbuku 12-14-2008 11:57 AM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
When you do a big hack job like that, is it necessary to adjust the CO2, photoperiod and the ferts? After all by doing a big trim you substantially reduce the plant mass.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfrank (Post 436517)
Regarding a large mass of root , you can try to lift out a small section at a time. I dont yank the entire plant all at once. This will usually create a mess. Instead, I get my fingers down in the substrate and try to pull up individual roots. This should leave behind the attached substrate particles and not make as much mess. Cavaet: I have done this with sand and fluorite and not with softer materials like ADA Aquasoil.

I found with Amazonia II when I yanked out a root ball from a Mirophyllium matogrossens I ended up with a huge dust could. Even with smaller stems like Rotala Vietnam I got a mini dust cloud. I think this is probably bec. Amazonia II disintegrates more easily. In contrast, with original Amazonia I have not had this happen.

AaronT 12-14-2008 12:17 PM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunbuku (Post 436559)
When you do a big hack job like that, is it necessary to adjust the CO2, photoperiod and the ferts? After all by doing a big trim you substantially reduce the plant mass.


I found with Amazonia II when I yanked out a root ball from a Mirophyllium matogrossens I ended up with a huge dust could. Even with smaller stems like Rotala Vietnam I got a mini dust cloud. I think this is probably bec. Amazonia II disintegrates more easily. In contrast, with original Amazonia I have not had this happen.

Just adjust the ferts down a little bit and you'll be fine. ADA's Green Gain seems to work well for helping them bounce back.

mrjg 12-17-2008 10:38 AM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
I rarely post here and mostly lurk but just had to pop in to say thanks for the great thread. Its nice to see the trimming techniques and how it develops picture by picture.

Sunstar 01-20-2009 01:46 PM

Re: Pruning timeline...
 
I've been hacking back, but I think I will hack back more shortly.


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