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Old 11-23-2004, 04:01 AM   #1 (permalink)
 
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What is the difference between Discus Trace and Fresh Trace?

I am going to use Discus/Fresh Trace in my community tank that has snails and shrimps. I am concern about the copper that Trace contains, does the copper affects invertebrates?
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Old 11-23-2004, 11:59 AM   #2 (permalink)
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The Discus Trace and Fresh Trace are of nearly identical formulation. Either one will work well for you in providing the trace elements that are actually utilized by fish.

Copper is a trace element used by the fish in freshwater. Both Fresh Trace and Discus Trace have copper in them. However, the copper amount is in trace quantities and should in no way harm your snails or other invertebrates in your system. The amount is miniscule.
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Old 11-24-2004, 02:19 AM   #3 (permalink)
 
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I am going to setup a shrimp tank, the population will be almostly, if not, all are shrimps. Do you see the benefit of dosing Fresh/Discus Trace ?
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Old 11-24-2004, 06:38 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Equilibrium will be of the most benefit for the invertibrates, as would small doses of Reef Iodine.
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Old 11-24-2004, 06:57 AM   #5 (permalink)
 
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Thank for the recommendation.

Equilibrium™ contains:
Guaranteed Analysis (Amounts per 1 g)
Soluble Potassium (K20) 23.0%
Calcium (Ca) 8.06%
Magnesium (Mg) 2.41%
Soluble Iron (Fe) 0.11%
Soluble Manganese (Mn) 0.06%
as from Seachem website.

Look at the high level of Potassium and Magnesium, I wander if these are needed by shrimps? I guess Calcium is needed by fresh water shrimps.

Do you know if these traces presence in stream water and the proportional is about there in nature?

The area I stay has very high PH water, and each time I change water, I have to drop the PH which I find it troublesome. I am looking for a solution to replace depleted traces by shrimps and other invertebrates so I can extend the water change interval.

Any suggestion or ideal would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 11-24-2004, 08:18 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Phil, what do you consider to be small doses of Reef Iodine? I have been dosing 1ml with every weekly 10 gallon water change in my 20 gallon aquarium for over a year. I don't know if it is an appropriate amount, but the caridina japonica have been healthy and continue to molt without any problems. I can't say that it is due to the addition of Reef Iodine, because there are many other factors involved. I also add 2.5ml of Reef Calcium with each water change.
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Old 11-24-2004, 09:55 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Its very interesting that this subject has come up as we were just speaking at length about this.

As far as Equilibrium goes, I do think it would be of benefit as it does contain some of the common elements associated with crustacean growth. However, it does not contain iodide.

Incidentally, it should probably be noted that there is an important difference between iodide and iodine. Iodine is a toxic substance and could be comparable in form to chlorine. In other words, iodine is to chlorine as iodide is to chloride. I'm being terribly simplistic here because I'd rather not diverge to much from the topic. It is simply important to note that the shrimp would be using iodide and not iodine.

Flourish does contain iodide in trace quantities. So, those dosing Flourish would derive some, though minimal, iodide supplementaion. Reef Iodide would certainly add iodide to your system. However, it is probable that iodide reacts in freshwater much as it does in saltwater. In saltwater aquariums, iodide reacts very quickly in the environment converting back and forth between states of iodine, iodide, and iodate. Additionally iodide is pulled out by protein skimmers, binds to the glass and is pulled out by carbon. For this reason, one has to dose very frequently to maintain a standing level. Granted the levels in saltwater are likely much higher than in freshwater. The point is that in order to keep a level in solution, iodide would most likely have to be dosed frequently - almost daily in freshwater as well as saltwater.

We are researching the subject. I think the idea of adding 1 ml to 10 gallons weekly would be good based on what Rob and Phil have seen. This dose, along with Flourish dosing, is probably very beneficial to the shrimp. The Reef Calcium is also an interesting idea as well. We are still studying this aspect in fact.
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Old 11-24-2004, 05:28 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I am glad to here that Seachem's team continues to evaluate its products for uses that may not have been initially intended. After all, one never knows what a hobbyist may try. I'm interested in hearing what you learn about the potential uses of Reef Calcium and Reef Iodide for freshwater invertebrates. I can only report that I have not seen any negative side effects, but I, unfortunately, do not have a sufficient number of aquariums to apply the scientific method.
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Old 11-30-2004, 02:15 PM   #9 (permalink)
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We'll certainly keep looking into it. Any feed back you have is always greatly appreciated as well. Hopefully we'll have news on the matter in a few months.
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