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Help identifying deficiency or toxicity...

9K views 20 replies 5 participants last post by  mathman 
#1 · (Edited)
Hello folks,

My tank's dimensions are 46"x17"x14" LxWxH

My measurements are from the inside of the glass, so I am not including the thickness of the glass. Also, the height is measured from the top of the substrate to where the surface of the water is. This results in a volume of 47g

When making my macro and micro doses, I calculate for a volume of 45g.

For the past two weeks, I have been dry dosing my macros

Macros 3x a week: Sun Tue Th

1/2 tsp KNO3

6 ppm of K
9.4 ppm of NO3

1/8 tsp KH2PO4

1.2 ppm of K
2.9 ppm of PO4

Micros 3x a week: Sat Mon Wed

Using CSM +B solution 500ml container and dosing 30ml ( .05 iron)

And a separate dose of 1.6ml of flourish iron

Total iron dosed during micro days is .14ppm if my calculations are correct using zorfox's calculator.

I have also been adding 4 3/4 tsp of Nilocs GH booster after water change on Saturdays.

According to zorfox's calculator this should provide,

10ppm of Ca
20ppm of K
2ppm of Mg

Nothing is being done on Fridays.

The tank has been setup for more than a year.

I am using one 48" Dutch style BML light fixture suspended. The distance from the substrate to the light is 21"
And the fixture is set at 100% power.

The tank has two 2217 Eheim filters and using pressurized CO2.

The co2 is set to turn on if the water's pH is > 6.1 (using a Milwaukee Ph controller)

The issues:

Well, most plants seem to be doing well with the exception of my rotalas and some ludwigia (I think)

Here some pictures that could help identifying the deficiency or toxicity.

















Other possible information that could help diagnosed:

Par levels for my light:



My city's water report:



Please let me know if there's any other information needed to help with diagnosing the issue.

Million thanks

Cristian
 
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#4 · (Edited)
Thank you Zapins.

According to Zorfox's calculator, I need to add 2.17 grams of CSM+B (approximately 1/2 tsp) to 500ml bottle and dose 30ml to get .05 of iron per dose.

I am dosing three times a week from this solution so that's .15 of iron so far.

It was stated above that I had also been dosing 1.6ml of Flourish Iron; however, I have actually been dosing 5ml, which according to zorfox's calculator, that should provide an extra .3 ppm of iron.

I dose flourish three times a week so that gives a total of .9 of flourish iron for the week.

The total CSM+B and Flourish iron for the entire week is 1.05ppm of iron

I also read on another post from you Zapins (hopefully I am correct) that one should not add no more than .7 ppm of iron a week.

If this is the case, then my dose needs to be rectified. Is my dose of CSM+B correct? Is it too little that my plants may be suffering from some deficiency from another trace?

What's the best combination for me to try at the moment?

How much of CSM+B for the entire week (calculating for iron for a 45g tank), how much of Flourish Iron for the entire week

Thanks

My tank has a lot of plants:

 
#5 ·
This Saturday is time for my weekly WC. Rather than dosing that much Iron per week (currently 1.05 ppm)

I will reduce my dose by continuing to use my micro solution (CSM+B) catered to a .05ppm of iron per dose. This will be dosed three times a week for a total of .15ppm.

I will also continue to use Flourish iron, but rather than dosing 5ml I will try 2ml three times a week.

So,

Iron per week using CSM+B .15ppm

Iron per week using flourish iron .351 ppm

Total iron for the week: .5ppm


This will take me under the suggested "no more than .7 ppm of iron per week"

Questions:

Should I dose CSM+B and Flourish Iron on the same day or is it best to dose On separate days that way there's some iron added 6 days of the week.

Is .15ppm per week of CSM+B enough to avoid any other deficiency such as boron?

Thanks
 
#6 ·
From what I see the plants seem to have new growth only symptoms. Which leads me towards a deficiency of one of the immobile elements. Assuming all your and Zorfox's calculations are correct it seems you are adding enough of everything for the plants to grow well except possibly traces.

The safe limit for CSM+B and iron hasn't been figured out 100% yet, but problems seem to appear around 2 ppm of CSM+B per week from what I've seen in other people's posts. On the flip side of that coin, the minimum also hasn't been determined very well either and changes with each person's unique tank conditions. With that said I'd venture a guess that your issue is with a lack of one of the traces. It doesn't seem to be likely that iron is deficient with you adding over 1 ppm per week. I wonder if this problem isn't a lack of one of the other micros, possibly boron.

Try increasing the dose of CSM+B so you are adding about 0.2 ppm per dose for a total of 0.6 ppm for the week. Then just reduce your flourish iron so the total iron doesn't go beyond about 1 ppm.

If the issue is micros then you should see the plants growing healthy new tissues within a week or so.
 
#7 ·
It looks like much of your iron and or traces are percipitating and collecting on your plants. You are adding 2.9ppm of P04 3 times a week/8.7ppm a week. If I dose much more than 2.9ppm a week I get the same problem. My advice is to cut back on the KH2P04.

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#12 ·
Hello Zapins and thank you for your interest.

Sadly, I am an impatient person. I started doing too many changes and have recently changed my regime once again.

I will be doing the following for the next two weeks and see if there's any positive change to the tank's current condition.

After water change on Fridays I will add:

.75 tsp of K2SO4 (12.6 ppm of K)

I will not add any GH booster since my tap waters GH is 8-9 degrees.

Macros: Sat-Mon-Wed

1 smidgen of KH2PO4 (.711 ppm)

.25 tsp K2SO4 (4.1 ppm of K)

1/8" tsp KNO3 ( 2.34 ppm of nitrates and 1.47 of K)

Micros: SUN-TUE-THU

CSM+B solution dosing .05 FE

And 1 smidgen of DTPA 10+ to get .15 ppm of Fe

Total amount dosed in a week:

Fe : .6 ppm
N: 7.02 ppm
P: 2.133 ppm
K: 29.31


I will definitely stick to this dose this time to see the effects on the plants.

I assume the total amount for each fert is more than enough for a heavily planted tank.

:)

I will update later in the day with pictures.

Im sorry for not keeping up with the thread and thank you all for the interest.

Cristian




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#13 ·
Looks like a much better regime to me! ;)
 
#14 ·
You are adding a massive amount of micros. The dosage we recommend for a solution of CSM made with a ratio of 1/4 cup dry CSM to 2 cups water is 1-4 drops per gallon of tank water per day. There are 75 drops in a teaspoon. You want to start out with the smaller dose of 1-2 drops per gallon per day. Then watch the plants and see how they respond. Increase the dose only if the plants tell you they want more after 2-4 weeks. Plants are pretty slow to show the changes.
I am not very good with all this measuring and testing but not looking at the plants. I would back off with all the fertilizers to about half and wait to see how the plants do. Look at the plants to see if the problem is structural as in cell production and strength which means they are deficient in macros. Or if what is going on is physiological as in production of chlorophyll. Although you have some red plants, you probably do not need a lot of extra iron.
 
#16 ·
I'm back at it again...



I recently purchased a calcium salifert test kit and tested my tap's water Ca concentration. My findings could be the cause of my twisted and maybe stunted growth.

GH: 8 degrees which is roughly 142.7 ppm (using API test kit)

Ca: 60ppm (using salifert test kit)

So,

Mg: 82.7 ppm

I suspect this being the reason for twisted and possibly stunted growth.

Will adding more calcium to have that 3 Ca : 1 Mg ratio be okay?

I've also read somewhere that there is no magic ratio.

Perhaps you guys can give your input on that as well.

What's considered high for Ca and Mg?

In my case, will adding more Ca to have that 3:1 ration be safe? Or will I be adding way too much calcium?

Thank you.

Thanks.


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#17 ·
That ratio is fine, a lot of spanish aquascapers preach that the best ratio is the otherway around. 3-4 times as much magnesium. So anything from 7:1 to 1:4 is fine.
 
#19 ·
No, both are high enough and the ratio is still normal. CSM contains magnesium, but in small amounts.
 
#20 ·
Thanks.

Another question:

Last trip to my LFS the owner told me that when using APIs Nitrate test kit, to divide the result by 4.4 to get my correct reading.

Is this correct?

Something to do with total nitrogen vs nitrate- nitrogen

So, if my reading is 80ppm, then if we divide that by 4.4, we get 18.2 ppm nitrates

Not sure how to interpret API nitrate test kit.

Thanks
 
#21 ·
I have not added any Mg or Ca recently and just finished testing the GH and Ca levels of my tank. Here's what i got:

10 dGH so that's 178ppm

Ca 40ppm

That should result in 138 ppm of Mg

There was some intake of Ca hence the decrease but Mg increased. How's that possible?
 
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