Tom,
Nobody is arguing with you buddy.
plantbrain said:
Art, all that research etc sounds great.
But if there was a real concerted effort, they would have figured this stuff out many years ago.
Come on, Tom. You being a student of science will appreciate the fact that aquatic botany (especially that defined by the confined space of our aquariums) is far from being an exact science. There are a number of things that science has yet to fully understand or explain. Ongoing research is necessary and will lead to new and novel ideas and methods.
The study of aquatic plants dates back well into Egyptian times, but it wasn't until relatively recently that we truly began to understand nutrient uptake and plant requirements.
plantbrain said:
Not one of them suggested more CO2 than 15ppm, PO4, NH4 as the caustive agent for algal blooms, hard water is fine for Aquatic plants and where some of the best growth occurs ....on and on ad nauseum...........
Everyone of them said something quite different prior.
Tom, we all thought very differently back then. I call it the evolution of a hobby for the better. There are plants that do better with hard water, but there are those that do not. I can name various Crypts that prefer one side or the other.
As you know, there are those even today who use very different methods and still achieve excellent growth with little visible algae.
plantbrain said:
It sounds good to a consumer and sounds more like a marketing ploy, not real research.
I ain't no genius, I was a poor student, just one person and few hobbyist for feedback.
Sure, anyone can try and make a routine work for them with strict guidelines using ONLY their products, most of which get even more and more extensive as time wears on.
But that's business protection/sales, not research.
It's similar to making it a "secret ingredient" that you have to pay extra for.
Now Tom [-X Lets clarify some things here. I don't believe ADA (or other reputable company) ever said
ONLY my products work. No one claimed to have a magic ingredient. Certainly there is good marketing behind Seachem, Tropica, Dupla, ADA, etc. but that's good business.
Don't dismiss the research that you have not seen.
I could refomulate all sorts of products and say it enhances this or that.
I could add a little Fluvic acid in my trace and make a big hodo over it.
I could make a plant "NO3/NH4 uptake accelerator" and just have it be KH2PO4 and water.
I wanna see something that shows that heating cables work.
Neither Claus nor myself have found any support for many of these claims.
You wanna trust them, put faith in their team of "researchers", be my guest.
But I will be critical of this so called "research".
Doesn't mean I dislike the company or Amano, I like him a great deal.
No, this is not snake oil, but it's not the cat's meow either.
It's just some traces with some Humic acid etc in it.
I won't buy into something until I understand it. I understand what they are doing with their fertilizer line, additive lines and substrate lines. I also understand why their products are made the way they are. If there is something I don't understand, I will ask for some substantiation before I purchase the product. If I don't get it, I won't buy it.
However, don't discount research you've never even seen. I think if you took the time to investigate ADA's research, perhaps you will at least be a little less critical than you are being. You don't have to agree with every product a company put out.
You bring up Claus Christensen of Tropica. He is one of the world's most respected aquatic gardeners. You may be interested to know I one of the Dupla tanks in Tropica has their heated cables. Both Claus and Holger have had many conversations with Amano and his team and I know they hold them in high regard.
Tom, lets just ask questions before jumping to conclusions. APC is a wonderful forum for this.
Tell you what, I will contact Nozomi Hayakawa at ADA and ask him to provide us with some background on ECA. Maybe that can begin an interesting discussion on humic acids and their impact on plant physiology. That reminds me on an interesting discussion I had with Kaspar Horst of Dupla. Well, that's another story...
plantbrain said:
These product lines keep growing etc, but there are only a few simple things plants need, light, CO2, nutrients.
More stuff is not better.
Enjoy the diversity available to us now, Tom. I, for one, would be tremendously bored if all I had were NO flourescents, yeast, and a bunch of bags of dry chemicals. For a long time, that's all we had!
All the best!