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Discussion Starter #1
I just wanted to post a couple of pics of my Angel rams. They are definitely on of the coolest fish I have ever had. They have a great personality and they are very nice with all other fish. I am going to build them a little cave out of slate this weekend so that hopefully they will breed for me. What do you guys think, many say these are not fertile or won't breed? I have had them for over three months now so I think they are healthy.



 

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So, I am guessing these are a hybrid cross between a Ram and an Angel. Is that correct? They are very colorful.

-Dave
 

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Truthfully I am not sure. There has actually been a debate about that for a few years but I think that it is just a weird mutation. Kinda like a balloon molly. Could go either way for me but they definitely have an angel fish quality to them.
 

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These are not hybrids in any way shape or form. These rams are exactly what you said, a genetic mutation that was selectively bred until it breeds through into the offspring. It would be impossible for an angelfish and a ram to reproduce, they are not closely enough related.
 

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r'bow lover
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Yea, they are just called angel rams because of the body shape. I like their regular body shape better, but to each their own. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Rich and Jan, thanks.

I guess a lot of people don't like these fish. Don't really understand why but absolutely to each their own.
 

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r'bow lover
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Many people who have been in the hobby for a while have seen "gimick" fish- bred forms of naturally occurring fish usually created to sell more fish. This is why there is a lot of debate about domesticated livebearers, goldfish, and now even saltwater clownfish. These "new" fish are products of genetic inbreeding and do not do much for the hobbyists besides look cool.

If you get them breeding they are likely going to have mutations/disease issues/poor immune systems due to their genetic past. This may not happen in the "F1" generation of these fish, but it will be evident down the road.

Does that clarify/make sense? It's a touchy subject, as you've seen!
 

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I can definitely see what you are saying but I don't necessarily agree with someone calling something a monstrosity for being different. You must also admit that none of the mutant albino fish that are so popular in the hobby would survive in nature either.
 

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From a fish brreder here in Taiwan I have been tol that these are the "captive" bred form of the German blue Ram. While the wild version has a longer body the captive version has a fatter rounder and shorter body. They are more sensitive compared to the wild version and the loss rate is quite high.

There is another version that has been breed to have a long fan like tail (the tail is almost 1 and 1/2 time the lengh of the body which I feel is rather strange). These long tailed versions are disease prone and have a lot of problems.

However the short body Rams and the regular wild rams (which have brighter colors) will bred together fine. The offspring is a combination of the two, with some favoring the wild version and some the captive version.

Personally I feel the wild version looks better, however its longer body is not as suitable for smaller tank sizes (then again Rams should not be kept in smaller tank sizes)
 

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I hate balloon rams and "angel rams". To me they are ugly and should all be destroyed as they are genetically inferior and a lot more sensitive than good quality rams.

They aren't the "captive bred form" they are from selective breeding of rams with round bodies, which are ugly looking. Microgeophagus ramirezi can breed with other variations of the same species with success. Balloon rams aren't a different species from wild rams, long finned rams, etc. They are different varieties of the same species. A gold ram could breed with a balloon ram just fine.

Rams can be kept in a 10 gallon breeding tank just fine...one sexed pair with no other inhabitants. Wild rams aren't longer, it's those damn cheap Asian bred ones that are stretched from being subjected to growth and coloring hormones and they live considerably shorter lives than wild ones. Heres what rams SHOULD looke like:

http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/bs6749/Miscellaneous/?action=view&current=Picture157.jpg

http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/bs6749/Miscellaneous/?action=view&current=Picture112.jpg

http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/bs6749/Miscellaneous/?action=view&current=Picture036.jpg

http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/bs6749/Miscellaneous/?action=view&current=Picture032.jpg
 
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