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Betta tank Walstad Now Journal

13489 Views 208 Replies 11 Participants Last post by  maico996, 
PlentyCoup
Hello all, been into tanks for decades now and on a different planted tank forum for years and recently found this forum that seemed more equiped to assist in my current delima.

I finally got a Fluval Spec III this May and got everything set up for a betta tank.
Four months later im at a crossroads between turning high tech with a paintball co2 set up or trying a variation of the Wastlad method.

Current tank specs
  • Stock Fluval filter and pump
  • Purigen bag in filter
  • Eheim Jagee 25watt heater
  • Micros- 1/64 mon thurs
  • KNO3- 1/16 tues fri
  • KH2PO4- 1/64 tues fri
  • Enhance liquid carbon . .3ml at arounfd 8:30 am
  • Lights on a kasa timer. On at 9am off at 1pm on at 3pm off at 7:30 pm.
  • 50%water changes on sunday

Tank Residents
  • Betta (Captian Pan)
  • Mystery Snail (Plum)
  • Netrite Snail (Hypno)

Flora
-Buce: Kappas, Sylvia and a third
  • Ctypt. Nurii phang mutated
  • Crypt. Green gecko
  • Crypt. Wendttii bronze
  • Rotala H'ra
  • Hydrocotyle Trip. Japan.
  • Star Grass
  • Sty. Repens
  • Pearl weed
  • staurogyne porta velho
  • Java fern

So part of the reason im having this debate is because of issues im having. The biggest issue really being the drastically differnt plant growth on the right vs left sides of the tank.
I can go into more detial if needed.
When this began to happen i immediayly began to think i was lacking in co2 for the lighting on the tank. Hense the research into a paintball co2 setup.

I wanted this tank to be middle ground. Not low tech but not high tech but clearly something is off.
I did not really want to go high tech on this nanao but i also did not want go fo the Walstad method on a established tank and have to deal with soil.

Then i found a article in Aquarium Hobbyist Magazine 2nd quater 2021 volume 5 where Paula Castro wrote a article about a walstad bowl she had and used Seachems Flourite Black as substrate. I liked the look of her bowl and wanted to see if i could adapt some of the Wastald methods into my betts tank with out having to loose plant varity or color variation.

I used a CaribSea rio grande substrate because i liked the look. Now im wondering if i should swap substrate but i had been told that the substrates with additives for plants were useless because once the nutrients, that i was told only last about 6 months, were used from them they were no different then any other substrate.

Another issue is if i need a stronger light. A post on the Planted Tank rated the new Fluval spec light at 60-70 PAR at substrate. If thats the case them why do my stem plants cral out on me on the left side of the tank.
Hopefully someone can make sense of this rambling and give some suggestions for which direction i should take or changes improve the health of the plants and overall eycosystem in the tank.
Heres a pic of the current set up which o despise right now most everything had been shoved into the right side of the tank.
73875

The crypts and buce all do very well.
The trip. Japan is doing poorly as well as the pearl weed. I had ludwigia x lacustris, it was the first victium of the left side of the tank.
If i need to clarify or add more pics i will.
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J
It's not the lights. Why are you doing 50% water changes every week (has the tank cycled?) You have no soil to speak of. Very little livestock. And you're emptying whatever nutrients that are left down the drain every week. Try planting something in a tiny container of soil and cap it with a tiny bit of gravel and place it in the bare corner and compare the growth. Trader Joe's sells a brand of k-cups that would do nicely in a betta tank.
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Michael
Welcome to APC!

Your first decision is whether to use CO2 or not. CO2 means high light and artificial fertilization. If you don't want to do that, then do a Walstad tank with soil substrate. Johnwesley's suggestion of a small pot or tray with some soil is a way to test the idea. Put one of your crypts in it.

If you want to go "full Walstad" you could use your Carib Sea as the cap over soil. Take out the Purigen, it is removing the nutrients.

The left side of the tank seems to have very shallow substrate. That might be part of the problem. And the light may not be distributed evenly over both sides of the tank. I have no idea how the lights are set up on the Spec. If they do truly produce 60-70 PAR, that is PLENTY of light.
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PlentyCoup
johnwesley0 said:
It's not the lights. Why are you doing 50% water changes every week (has the tank cycled?) You have no soil to speak of. Very little livestock. And you're emptying whatever nutrients that are left down the drain every week. Try planting something in a tiny container of soil and cap it with a tiny bit of gravel and place it in the bare corner and compare the growth. Trader Joe's sells a brand of k-cups that would do nicely in a betta tank.
Click to expand...
The tank is fully cycled only took about 3 weeks for a fishless cycle when i set it up.

Im doing 30%-50% water changes because in my research and experence in the hobby thats just what you do. Espically when your doseing ferts in the EI method. It what i had read and what i had been told by other experienced hobbyist.

My understanding was that my light and limited co2 do not allow for optiomal plant growth. So the plants only use x% of ferts/nutriants do water changes on weekends to remove excess which wpuld not be used and posdibly lead to toxic build up trace elements and alage growth.

Also i tend to overfees my fish which i know is esswntally a capital offence in the fish keeping world.
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PlentyCoup
Michael said:
Welcome to APC!

Your first decision is whether to use CO2 or not. CO2 means high light and artificial fertilization. If you don't want to do that, then do a Walstad tank with soil substrate. Johnwesley's suggestion of a small pot or tray with some soil is a way to test the idea. Put one of your crypts in it.

If you want to go "full Walstad" you could use your Carib Sea as the cap over soil. Take out the Purigen, it is removing the nutrients.

The left side of the tank seems to have very shallow substrate. That might be part of the problem. And the light may not be distributed evenly over both sides of the tank. I have no idea how the lights are set up on the Spec. If they do truly produce 60-70 PAR, that is PLENTY of light.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the welcome
So even doseing .3ml liquid carbon would a no in a Walstad tank?
And the artical about using the Seachem Flourite would not work in walstad tank, only soil?
Ive been as skittish about attempting soil in a tank as i have been upgrading to presdurized co2. Ive never done eather just researched and read the countless horror stories and complacations that come with both options.

I will try the pot phang mutated crypt its the slowest growing of the crypts i have.

www.plantedtank.net

Fluval Spec 3 light vs Finnex StingRAY LED Clip, PAR...

I'm doing a low tech shrimp tank setup. Basically, my confusion comes as, what PAR level should I do for no CO2 setup. I bought a Finnex StingRAY LED Clip thinking to be an upgrade to the stock LED comes with Fluval Spec 3. But to my surprise the Finnex light is way dimmer. So I tested both...
www.plantedtank.net www.plantedtank.net
Heres the link for the PAR reading on the lights. If that reading accurate then i should be having no issues in reguards to lighting. Which is why the differences on both sides of that tank were so confusing.
The right side of the tank faces the window by thats on the other side of the room. I could measure the exact distance but i dont think its enough to so drastically effect the plant growth.
Thanks for all the suggestions
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Michael
Flourite works well as a cap over the soil substrate--one of my tanks is set up that way.
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J
PlentyCoup said:
The tank is fully cycled only took about 3 weeks for a fishless cycle when i set it up.

Im doing 30%-50% water changes because in my research and experence in the hobby thats just what you do. Espically when your doseing ferts in the EI method. It what i had read and what i had been told by other experienced hobbyist.

My understanding was that my light and limited co2 do not allow for optiomal plant growth. So the plants only use x% of ferts/nutriants do water changes on weekends to remove excess which wpuld not be used and posdibly lead to toxic build up trace elements and alage growth.

Also i tend to overfees my fish which i know is esswntally a capital offence in the fish keeping world.
Click to expand...
Are you actually tracking your water's nitrogen parameters (i.e., testing it?)
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PlentyCoup
www.aquariumhobbyistmagazine.com

Home | Aquarium Hobbyist Magazine

www.aquariumhobbyistmagazine.com
Heres the link to the magazine that had the Wastald setup that caught my attention ans used the seachem flourite instead of soil.
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PlentyCoup
johnwesley0 said:
Are you actually tracking your water's nitrogen parameters (i.e., testing it?)
Click to expand...
Yes of course. The great importance of water testing was drilled into my head before i even touched planted tanks.
I have a calibrated API masterkit along with gh/kh i test weekly and keep track.
My ammqonia and nitrite are always 0ppm and my nitrate is usually ranges from 15-25 on sundays.
If it tests out close to or over 20
i do the water change.
I can get the rest of my water paramaters if needed.
I am probably still on a bit of a learning curve, all my initial knoelwdge on water paramaters was for plantless tanks and that nitrate 20ppm or over warrented water changes.
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PlentyCoup said:
Yes of course. The great importance of water testing was drilled into my head before i even touched planted tanks.
I have a calibrated API masterkit along with gh/kh i test weekly and keep track.
My ammqonia and nitrite are always 0ppm and my nitrate is usually ranges from 15-25 on sundays.
If it tests out close to or over 20
i do the water change.
I can get the rest of my water paramaters if needed.
I am probably still on a bit of a learning curve, all my initial knoelwdge on water paramaters was for plantless tanks and that nitrate 20ppm or over warrented water changes.
Click to expand...
Thanks. That was helpful. You're in the same position I was about eight months ago - and still am, to a certain extent. I, too decided to start a Walstad tank, or at least adopt/adapt some of its techniques to a tank that had already been set up to hold a minimal number of fish and plants. I didn't even have a decent light fixture until last May!

But, like your betta tank, my somewhat larger bowl always had decent parameters: 0 ppm for ammonia and nitrites and seldom more than 20 ppm or nitrates. The nitrate level is pesky even though it is the least toxic of the three nitrogen bi-products we normally test for (I sometimes wish API had a way of differentiating between harmful ammonia and less harmful ammonium - but, that's another story!)

In an ideal world we would all have ways to magically move our fish to another tank while we make the transition to full blown Walstad because the key, of course, is that you should have so many rapidly growing plants with enough rapidly growing roots that they

1) become the dominant source of ammonia/ammonium predation,

and,

2) are able to aerate the highly organic soil enough to prevent it from becoming anaerobic.

But, it doesn't always work out that way. Your plants need a certain amount of nutrients in order to stay healthy and, if they are constantly competing with beneficial bacteria (which gained control back when we cycled our tanks) for ammonia - which is their preferred food source - then, you have to allow them a decent supply of nitrates to tide them over.

I've done pretty well with 20% water changes every two weeks and a fairly constant level of 20ppm for nitrates.

And, though you haven't mentioned it, I'd also advise against vacuuming the gravel. With one fish - and even with overfeeding - you're not in any great danger of poisoning your livestock.
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Michael
That article has several misconceptions. First, if the bowl doesn't have soil under the Flourite, it isn't the Walstad method. Soil is an integral component. Second, the reason the water parameters are so good is because there are plenty of healthy, growing plants. Yes, beneficial bacteria have colonized the Flourite, but it is the plants that are doing the work. Third, in the Walstad method we feed generously. Fish food supplies the necessary nutrients for plant growth.

The author says she "devoured" Ecology of the Planted Aquarium but apparently she did not digest it.
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PlentyCoup
Michael said:
That article has several misconceptions. First, if the bowl doesn't have soil under the Flourite, it isn't the Walstad method. Soil is an integral component. Second, the reason the water parameters are so good is because there are plenty of healthy, growing plants. Yes, beneficial bacteria have colonized the Flourite, but it is the plants that are doing the work. Third, in the Walstad method we feed generously. Fish food supplies the necessary nutrients for plant growth.

The author says she "devoured" Ecology of the Planted Aquarium but apparently she did not digest it.
Click to expand...
Good to know.
Im am intreasted in trying soil it seems to be more along thr lines of what i wanted in a tank. I just still cant wrap my head around the no co2 as ive always been told the inhabitants of a tank will never produce enough co2 for healthy plant growth.
I need to go pick the book so i can read this all for my self.

Im just very cocerned about attempting it with my betta. Im assuming i would have to empty the tank remove everything temporarly. Have a sutiable potting soil picked out and do the initial tests of how the soil could change the water chemestry to hopefully avoid some of the horror stories ive read about when people switch to soil.
I have to take a hard look at my current plants and hardscape because its my understanding that once planted ypu do not touch/move/distrube the substrate.
How would this work with crypts if i wanted to remove a baby plant etc?
Would my tank go through another cycle? I wouldnt touch the filter and i removed Purigen i was told it would act simular to the biological lay media thats in my Eheim canister filter. I should just stuck some of those in a mesh bag to fit on the empty filter slot as had been my origional plan.
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PlentyCoup
johnwesley0 said:
Thanks. That was helpful. You're in the same position I was about eight months ago - and still am, to a certain extent. I, too decided to start a Walstad tank, or at least adopt/adapt some of its techniques to a tank that had already been set up to hold a minimal number of fish and plants. I didn't even have a decent light fixture until last May!

But, like your betta tank, my somewhat larger bowl always had decent parameters: 0 ppm for ammonia and nitrites and seldom more than 20 ppm or nitrates. The nitrate level is pesky even though it is the least toxic of the three nitrogen bi-products we normally test for (I sometimes wish API had a way of differentiating between harmful ammonia and less harmful ammonium - but, that's another story!)

In an ideal world we would all have ways to magically move our fish to another tank while we make the transition to full blown Walstad because the key, of course, is that you should have so many rapidly growing plants with enough rapidly growing roots that they

1) become the dominant source of ammonia/ammonium predation,

and,

2) are able to aerate the highly organic soil enough to prevent it from becoming anaerobic.

But, it doesn't always work out that way. Your plants need a certain amount of nutrients in order to stay healthy and, if they are constantly competing with beneficial bacteria (which gained control back when we cycled our tanks) for ammonia - which is their preferred food source - then, you have to allow them a decent supply of nitrates to tide them over.

I've done pretty well with 20% water changes every two weeks and a fairly constant level of 20ppm for nitrates.

And, though you haven't mentioned it, I'd also advise against vacuuming the gravel. With one fish - and even with overfeeding - you're not in any great danger of poisoning your livestock.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the suggestions. Good to know someone else has had a simular situtation to mine. When i brought my delima up to people about which directiom to take my tank ive basically been told "you should have thought of this before you set it up" or "well it too late now" as though they were never decided to make changes to a tank.

I have a lot research and prep before i make a final move. Housing my betta and snails while i get things situtated will be a hurdle.
Would the dwarf hair grass Belem DHG Eleocarius mini work? I know hairhrass is popular and this tank needs some sort of continunity to it.
Ill have to really revise my plant list. Right now i was just trying a bunch of things and the java fern, pond weed, greeb gecko and one of the repens were all extras that came with my plant orders.

As far a vaccuming gravel goes i dont.
I have the tubing from the smallest siphon from my LFS and i use a turkey baster to somewhat disturb the plant matter that sits on top of the substrate.
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J
The ultimate decision is u to you. From everything I've seen, your betta appears happy and you have the potential for more plant growth with just what you have. Putting your plants into pots is one suggestion. The slowly decomposing organic matter in ordinary potting soil produces enough CO2 to obviate the need for artificial sources for about four to five months. Another CO2 "hack" is to invest in a few plants that grow long, floating "pads". They derive their CO2 directly from the air. A banana plant or two would top my list for that vacant left corner.
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PlentyCoup
So i think i have a bit of plan forming.
I have another small table in my room that I could fit a small tank on or im hopeing a punch bowl. Ill attempt the Walstad method from the very start in what i will call my experiment bowl and get my hands on the book so i can have a better understanding of how to procede.
If all goes well i can move my betta and snails from the spec and begin the transirion in that tank as well.
The only issue i see currently is that the location does not receive much natural light. Light from my windows is mostly blocked by a tall dresser.
I was looking at Chihros lights but will have to revulate that once i have the punch bowl picked out.
I have some questions in reguards to soil and compost but imm head over to the soil thread about those.
If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions on this new plan of action or plants that would be good to try ied appreciate it.
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J
I grew a red tiger lotus (not an easy plant for beginners) from a sprout until it had two lily pads with just this:
Top Fin® Flexible Nano Aquarium LED Light | fish Lights | PetSmart
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PlentyCoup
johnwesley0 said:
I grew a red tiger lotus (not an easy plant for beginners) from a sprout until it had two lily pads with just this:
Top Fin® Flexible Nano Aquarium LED Light | fish Lights | PetSmart
Click to expand...
Wow color me impressed Tiger Lotus is tricky and i would not have thought a light like that could pull it off. Ive wanted to try a dwarf varity, maybe i can make it a centet piece for the experimenr tank.
Ill check out that light the price tag is cerntly a mark in its consideration.
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PlentyCoup
Just order Diana's book from her website, so on the right track. Gonna keep my eyes out for another 3 gallon tank or bowl of some sort. I need the book figure out if im going to filter this tank/bowl.
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PlentyCoup said:
Just order Diana's book from her website, so on the right track. Gonna keep my eyes out for another 3 gallon tank or bowl of some sort. I need the book figure out if im going to filter this tank/bowl.
Click to expand...
Good move. And, just to tide you over until it arrives, the articles on DW's website are free and full of lots of information, Scroll down until you get to the list (the first three, colored in green are especially pertinent:)
Planted Aquariums – Diana Walstad's Books and Articles

HTH
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PlentyCoup
johnwesley0 said:
Good move. And, just to tide you over until it arrives, the articles on DW's website are free and full of lots of information, Scroll down until you get to the list (the first three, colored in green are especially pertinent:)
Planted Aquariums – Diana Walstad's Books and Articles

HTH
Click to expand...
Thanks ive already started reading through the first link. Also got a bucket of compost soaking so step one is underway. Now i just have to hope tjmaxx or home goods has a decent bunch bowl lol.
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