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Discussion Starter #1
I have been much impressed with the pictures that Biker has been sending to the Aquarium Photography Forum. From what I have seen, so far, he specializes in stem plants, and he grows related species together in groups and then photographs them. If you have not seen his pictures, you should go to the photography forum and look at them. He has over 90 posts, and most of them have pictures. If you are into stem plants, he has the collection to die for.

We need pictures like his for crypts. There are so many varieties, and the determination of whether they are species or not is a long way from being finalized. European Crypt enthusiasts mostly grow theirs emersed because they are easier to care for that way. Jan Bastmeijer has an extensive collection of emersed growth pictures, but very few submersed growth pictures.

I think that crypts are much more beautiful when grown submersed. Also, I think that differences in form and coloration are often greater in submersed varieties than emersed.

I would like to get interested crypt nuts started on a project to get pictures of groups of related crypts grown together. As we know, crypts are slow growers, and the time from planting to photographing is likely to be 6 months to a year.

Here are some groups that would be good subjects for group pictures. Let's start with one of the biggest groups.

1. C. wendtii varieties. There are so many of them! I have maybe four---a large brownish one, a smaller green with some brown one, a nearly all green one that I recently got from Naomi (gnome), one which I thought was var. red, but it doesn't look at all like the one pictured in the Plant Finder. I am not sure that all the above are wendtii. They came to me with that name, and they look sort of like I think wendtii ought to look with triangular, wavy, usually bullate leaves, broadest at the base. I know that there are quite a few varieties out there that I don't have. I have lost at least one through carelessness.

I volunteer to work on the wendtii group picture. I will set aside a tank for the project. Give me a few days to get pictures of the ones I have. I will post them and then ask those who have wendtii varieties not like mine to send me a plant of their variety. I will pay shipping costs.


Other volunteers? If you volunteer you can get varieties you don't have in your chosen group from other crypt nuts willing to participate.


Here are some other groups:
2. the crispatula group---balansae, crispatula, tonkinensis, etc. I have two, that are not balansae and not tonkinensis. My balansae died from poisoning by plastic trays. There is said to be a reddish balansae and a greenish balansae.
3. the beckettii group. Beckettii seems to exist in only one form, but there have been several different looking plants that people are calling petchii, the triploid form of beckettii. I had one that I thought was petchii that doesn't look like any of the present ones. Lost it. :cry:
4. the cordata group. Lots of forms here. I don't know very much about them. I have only one.
5. C. parva and the C. x willisii group. There is only one parva, but there seem to be a number of hybrids with parva and who knows what. These all are lumped unter the C. x willisii name by Jacobsen. Older names for these are C. nevillii and C. lucens. I suspect that there are more than one varieties that are in the nevillii subgroup and perhaps also the lucens subgroup.
6. the C. walkeri group. Lots of varieties here. these, when grown submersed are fairly large and have long narrow leaves. Maybe I am wrong here. The walkeri shown in Kasselmann has wider, shorter leaves widening all the way to the base, and it looks like the one I got from Naomi (gnome) that is supposed to be an all-green wendtii. Kasselmann says that walkeri can be differentiated from wendtii and beckettii by its "slightly stiff and upright growth". That doesn't help me. I am confused. All I know is that the one I think is walkeri was sold to me as lutea, and lutea is widely known by experts to really be a walkeri. My plant has long, narrow leaves that are green and brown to mostly brown. I have two other varieties similar to it in leaf shape, but not quite as large. One of these has red areas on its leaves, instead of brown.
7. the C. undulata group. I have what Jan Bastmeijer calls the 'classic' undulata. Apparently there are one or more other forms. Kasselmann's picture doesn't look like my plant.
8. C. pontederiifolia and C. moehlmannii. Are they visibly different when grown together?
9 C. albida. Are there really green and brown forms that remain green and brown when grown together?
10. C. affinis. The form available these days has muted colors compared to the old C. affinis (hartelliana) available in the early '60s. That plant had dark blue-green leaves with intense purple-red undersides. Does anybody have the old form? I don't have either form.
 

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Here are the crypts that I am growing. I am working on BOTH emersed and submersed of most of them.*

Wendti Mi Oya* (some speculation on if what I have is indeed Mi Oya)
Petchii*
Becketii*
Parva*
Pygmaea (emersed only)
Albida (green and grown)*
Retrospiralis (sub only)
Pontederiifolia*
Lucens (submersed only)
Wendtii hybdrid (emersed)
L. thwaitesii (emersed..not a crypt...but on well ;))
Wendtii red (emersed)

And to answer your question Paul, here is albida growing side by side exhibiting both colors
 

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I'm growing a couple dozen different varieties of Cryptocoryne emersed right now. Perhaps if they look good in December, I could post a lot of photos meant for the Plant Finder. If I have a open house, Art can take photos of all of them. :mrgreen:

I only grow a handful submersed in a 55g long term aquascape, which include balansae (red and green), x willisii, wendtii 'Mi Oya', wendtii 'Green', and affinis. The affinis is pretty distinctive because of its wine red undersides.

Carlos
 

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I have maybe three different wendtii variants, one type of becketti, some cilatia and one "unknown." I recently lost my balansae but I am looking to purchase some more. Maybe I could take that group? Doesnt really matter which to me but I'd like to help somehow and get more crypt varieties.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
This weekend, I will post some pictures of my wendtii varieties. I am pretty sure I don't have Mi Oya. Next order of business will be for me to get a cattail(!) out of my crypt tank. It came up from a seed just about 8 weeks ago, and is already trying to push the cover off.
 

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I'd like to post pics of all my crypts too. Can anyone recommend a decent site to host the photos that will let you show the actual pics instead of just linking to the site?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Or, you could post them in the album/ cryptocoryne catalog Maximum size 100K. Or you could post them here in this forum, same max size.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for the pictures of albida, Gomer. Now, I wonder if the green form stays green when submersed in good light.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Here are the promised pictures of my C. wendtii varieties:
1. Medium sized green with some brown. The center plant

2. Large brown wendtii, picture 1. This is the plant to the right. In the center is a smaller brown variety, which I no longer have.


3. large brown wendtii, picture 2. Here the plant has reached full size. It is growing in a 55 gallon tank. The little holes in the leaves are due to potassium deficiency.


4. Red wendtii? This is the small plant in the lower left. It probably can get a lot larger.



5. The small green wendtii I got from Gnome.

 

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I'm currently growing several varieties of crypts submersed as well:

C. wendtii (Red, Tropica, and Green Gecko vars)
C. affinis
C. blassii
C. longicauda
C. nurii

My wendtii are doing the best of all of them (no surprise there) and I had one Red put out a spathe a few weeks ago, although it was short-lived. Several of them are still recovering from a BGA outbreak I had while on vacation but should be coming back strong soon, so I will post pics when they get better. Great idea, I'm anxious to compare photos. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Travis, Does your red wendtii look like my red wendtii? Do any other of your wendtii varieties look like mine? What I want to do is get together as many wendtii varieties as posssible, grow them in close proximity together, and then photograph them. This way I should be able to confirm whether or not they are, indeed, different from each other as well as get started on a collection of photographs that should be helpful in differentiating the varieties circulating around.
 

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That small green form is none other than wendtii x hybrid. It looks very beautiful in that photo -- it is my favorite out of the group. None of your wendtii varieties are very reminescent of mine:

wendtii 'red' -- variable, generally gigantic form with very upright leaf structure under low to moderate lighting. Looks much like the wendtii 'red' pictured in the Plant Finder by gnatster.

wendtii 'green' -- green form which is very reminescent of your wendtii x hybrid except that it is orders of magnitude larger.

wendtii 'Tropica' -- most abberrant wendtii variety, staying smaller than all of my other plants, producing bronze colored bullate foliage.

wendtii 'Mi Oya' -- very similar in appearance to wendtii 'red', but seems to have a stiffer upright structure, duller coloration, and more textured foliage.

I've also tried a wendtii 'rose' which had a very pink-brown color and never grow taller than 2-3 inches! I no longer have this variety, but would like to have it again.

Carlos
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I'd like to get my hands on those varieties that differ from mine so that I can get as many wendtii varieties as possible growing in one tank for photography. I can trade or pay. I can bring maybe 2 plants of my red variety, 5 or 6 little plants of the wendtii x hybrid, and 3 plants each of my large brown and medium green-brown varieties to the AGA convention for trade. I can also bring a bunch of Nymphoides sp. taiwan for trade.
 

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In the lower left corner is C. pygmaea. Stay low and go to the right just past the Anubias in the center is C. petchii. Above the petchii is red wendtii, the few tall leaves parallel to the driftwood. On the left above the pygmaea and Anubias are blassi (oval leaves) and spiralis (long thin leaves that go to top of pic). On the shelf to the right, starting low and all the way to the right are some form of willisii, I believe, There also may be some green wendtii in there. The thin fluted leaves above that is balansae.
 

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I wish I knew enough to confirm that. There's more to know about willisii and x willisii than I pretend to know. On top of that, I have bought some completely unidentified green crypts with long petioles that might be some form of willisii as well.

How is Kasselmann on crypt id'ing?
 
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