chiahead said:
Hi Greg Watson, I was surprized to see your post.
<grin> ... I'm usually pretty quiet ...
chiahead said:
Just a question, what about the ingredients that are in Flourish that are not in CSM+B. I use this site as a reference:
http://www.gpodio.com/fert_table.asp
There are archive discussions on that going back quite aways. The person who could probably best answer that question just might be Mr. Steve P.
I had an interesting conversation with Mr. Barr as he went through a heirarchy of nutrient deficiencies at the AGA conference. He was able to simplify what I consider to be higher order deficiencies starting with light, CO2, macros, iron, and then a long list a micros ... it was my perception that (in general), by the time we encounter a deficiency in the lower order of traces that the magnitude is so small as to almost be inconsequential. There are a million and one scientific reasons why my "perception" is technically wrong, but in practice, I believe it to be true ...
Just like some of the underlying PMDD assumptions have been proven to be "technically wrong" for example in the context of limiting a macro nutrient to limit algae growth ... still the strategy works in practice because it does a pretty good job of "feeding" our plants the nutrients they need in the right ratios ...
There are many people who have used the Plantex CSM+B/Magnesium Sulfate combination over the last decade ... and in practice ... it works ... and there are probably dozens of different reasons why it works for "most" people ...
And hopefully I'm not quoting gpodio TOO much out of context, but just recently he wrote: "but of course we must also consider the ratios and which items are there as impurities or otherwise already present in tap water, making their presence of little importance to most of us." I suspect that there is a huge golden nugget of truth in that comment ...
chiahead said:
that link u posted has a list for addign 1 tablespoon of CSM+B and 1 tablespoon ok magnesium sulfate with water. Why do all the posts I see add Mg?
In most cases, Plantex does not have enough Magnesium in it in terms of its relationship/ratio to other micro nutrients ...
chiahead said:
What about calcium? Isnt the calcium/Magnesium ration supposed to be 4:1?
I don't personally know the answer to this one <grin> ... carbonate hardness is not a problem I have to worry about with my tap water <GRIN>!!!!
chiahead said:
Also, what are your thoughts on Aviel's post about the chelated ferts compared to the soluable or more avail form?
There are two different kinds of chelators and I can't explain how they work. And if I understand it correctly, Flourish is the only commercial aquatic trace formulation that uses an Iron Gluconate form of Iron rather than a chelated version(?) [I am not sure about this at all ...] ...
So ... with that very fuzzy and confused disclaimer <GRIN>!!! I don't think the comparison is an apples to apples comparison ... it might be a fair question to pose about alternative formulations of Iron ... but then the comparison is between Flourish and all of the other commercial and non-commercial sources for trace elements ...
However, I would caution, **Don't** take anything I'm saying wrong, I personally like the Flourish entire line of products better than anyone else's out there ...
I often recommend the entire Flourish, Flourish Nitrogen, Flourish Phosphourous, and Flourish Potassium line to people as the "best" solution for their unique situation ...
However, for many of us that choose to pursue a DIY approach consistent with the ageless Poor Man's Dosing Drop's do it yourself strategy ... the Plantex CSM+B and Magnesium Sulfate approach is an excellent alternative ...
But back to your question about Aviel ... I'm not personally convinced that the real question shouldn't be about our "current thinking" about what the appropriate Iron level should be ...
Back when I was using Flourish, I usually had to dose supplemental Iron about twice a month ... when I switched to Plantex CSM+B ... I still usually dose supplemental Iron ...
So when we are thinking broadly about the concept of dosing the right ratio of nutrients to meet the unique nutrient uptake requirement of our plants ... the key is to make sure that whatever product we are using, that we dose the right ratio of ingredients to meet the unique nutrient requirements of our unique aquarium .....
Greg