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Why wouldn't an Eheim filter with a flow of about 450 gph on a 180 gallon tank with a lily pipe outflow work just as well as the Superjet filters? I don't see how you will fail just because you aren't using the ADA brand filter, which costs a fortune.

This is a very interesting thread and I will be re-reading it later. Very interesting ideas. I really see what you are saying about how laminar flow drags or pulls the particles.
 

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I have been following this thread, and playing around with my own lily pipe. What really interested me was the discussion of the gyre, and how Amano typically puts his lily pipes toward the front of the tank.

I have never noticed it until you mentioned it, but you are right. He does tend to put his outflow toward the front of the tank.

I had my outflow dead-center on the side of the tank and so I had good laminar flow, but when I moved my pipe to the back of the tank I noticed how the water would still flow in the same manner as it was before (flowing from top, hitting the other side of the tank, flowing down, then flowing back to the other side, in a circular manner) and I knew that this was the way the water moved in the tank by watching the way the bubbles from my diffuser (placed on opposite side of tank) would move.

Now, the water ALSO flows strongly along the back wall of the tank, circling around and then moving traveling along the front wall and back to the intake. Like a whirlpool. In a whirlpool in nature you would expect a dead zone in the center, but I believe the design of the lily pipe (when placed along the front or back glass, creating this whirlpool) also "folds" the water creating laminar flow that continuously drags water through the center of the tank and preventing the center from being a dead zone, despite the whirlpool effect that seems to happen (IME) when the outflow pipe is placed towards the front/back glass.

I tried to draw a quick sketch in Paint to show what I am talking about. Please look at this picture and notice that this picture can represent a view of the water flow in the aquarium when looking from ABOVE, or when looking from the FRONT. The flow seems to take this pattern in both directions. It is hard for me to articulate the words to describe what I am seeing in my aquarium based on the movement/distribution of the co2 bubbles, so hopefully you guys understand. In a nutshell, I think that by placing the outflow on the front or back of the tank, a U pattern is created but this is a double U (water moving on top, down, along the bottom then up to the intake, as well as along the back, along the side, along the front, and then up back into the intake.) All the bases seem to be covered this way.

 

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So I moved my lily pipe from the back towards the front and noticed something cool. The co2 distribution from the diffuser on the other side of the tank is just as good, and by looking at the way the bubbles move I can see that the "whirlpool" type of flow makes water flow faster on the BACK glass of the tank and before, when I had the outflow in towards the back, the flow was strongest on the front glass and the waters pretty much went OVER the stems in the back, hit the other side of the tank and swirled around and flowed back, giving the foreground much more flow than the background. Before, the majority of the co2 bubbles were above my HC foreground, and now the majority of them are flowing through the leaves and amongst the stems of my background plants.

It seems to me that Amano chooses to place the intake towards the front pane of glass for the above reasons. Putting it towards the front gives much more flow in the back of the tank, making water flow through the stems and distributing co2 and nutrients and preventing detritus build up MUCH better when the outflow is placed toward the front rather than towards the back.

Placing the outflow of the lily pipe in the dead center doesn't create this "whirlpool effect" that I have noticed. It does not make a "double 'U'" pattern, only a single "U".

I just thought this was interesting. I am keeping my lily pipe towards the front. It works much better if you have stem plants in the back.
 

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I have an ipod that records video, I can play with it today and see how it works. If it's crappy I can read the instructions on my sony cybershot and see if that works better.

I don't actually own any fish food since I have no fish. Maybe I can turn down the flow and use food coloring to show where the water moves?
 

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I tried taking video with food coloring since I don't have food, but it didn't turn out and my tank is blue.

The good news is that anyone can look at the flow themselves just by moving the lily pipe back to front, front to the back, to the center and experiment a little bit.
 

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Actually the Bio Rio that Amano uses is REALLY good at capturing debris, even the silt when aquasoil is stirred up. I replaced all my media with Bio Rio for that reason. It compacts and catches a lot of debris but does slow down the flow a bit.

I only use Bio Rio (and purigen on top) in my ecco. I do have a coarse filter pad on bottom but that is only so the bio rio doesn't fall through the bottom tray (it's pretty small.)
 

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I have a mini-m and a superjet ES-600 (After owning one, I love the superjets!) even though the filter is only about 100 gph, the flow was way too intense with a mini lily pipe. I switched to an off-brand lily pipe to decrease the flow, but it still moves the aquasoil on the opposite end of the tank.


If just ordered a 45-P since I wanted to upgrade anyway. If the flow is still too strong, I am considering being a guinea pig and ordering the new lily pipe spin, which is a circular pipe that releases water on both sides. It looks like a tire.

I was wondering how this would positively or negatively affect the flow. It can't be bad if ADA releases it. OTOH, maybe flow doesn't matter that much on small tanks when you are using superjets?

I could order the new superjet es-300, but I can't justify spending $400 or so bucks when my es-600 holds six liters of media and the es-300 holds three and is only 50 GPH.

I am hesitent to use a tap connector to decrease the flow..would it negatively affect the Iwaki pump?
 
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