[my soggy green thumb]

Hi everyone,
I am wondering if there is a safe way to "disinfect" new fish before introducing them into an established tank. I know that they should ideally be quarantined but I only have two tanks, both of which are well established with happy and healthy inhabitants. I have read several methods for disinfecting plants but nothing for fish other than quarantine. I would like to add some more neons to my 20 gallon but I know that they can be very susceptible to ick and can also carry it for quite some time. Is there any sort of "dip" that new fish can be soaked in for a short period of time before putting in a new tank? I had a nasty ick outbreak once before which infected my clown loaches and neons (from adding new plants that I didn't dip [-X ) and it was a PAIN to get rid of due to the plants, shrimp, and snails being so sensitive to the usual treatments. Any suggestions? Thanks!
~Michelle

 

[Sir_BlackhOle]

A seperate quarantine tank really is the best thing in my opinion. I dont believe there is any "dip" for fish, and I dont know if I would want to do that anyway. There's no reason to treat fish that arent sick.

 

[Corigan]

A seperate quarantine tank really is the best thing in my opinion. I dont believe there is any "dip" for fish, and I dont know if I would want to do that anyway. There's no reason to treat fish that arent sick.

Sir Blackhole has hit it right on the head. Don't treat fish that aren't sick. I also agree with his opinion that a seperate quarantine tank is really the best scenario. It's ideal to just add the fish to the quarantine tank and then monitor there progress for a few weeks and then medicate if need-be for symptoms/parasites that have shown up. If you don't see anything wrong in a few weeks, it's usually safe to add them into your main aquariums.

Matt

 

[MikeWinLDS]

How are you supposed to see inside a fish, Blackhole? Use some Praziquantel to get rid of any internal parasites in a QT tank before introducing them to the main tank. I've found this place to have the most product for the least price-http://www.pondrx.com/shop/details.php?productId=57&catId=32. My discussion with Kate about Prazi-http://www.aquaria.info/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=24237.

 

[Sir_BlackhOle]

I still have a problem with treating fish without any visible signs of illness. If you keep them quarantined long enough, most illnesses will become apparent I believe.

 

[Error]

I don't think it's unreasonable to add fish that appear to be healthy to an already-established tank. I do not use a quarantine tank, and ever since I've learned how to keep fish well, there have never been any problems.

 

[MikeWinLDS]

You probably won't see signs of internal problems until it is too late to treat. Better safe than sorry. Loaches.com even recommends treating Clowns with internal parasite medicines when you keep them.

http://www.loaches.com/faq_parasites.html

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Subject: lone clown loach
Posted by Dr. Momfish on Wednesday, 17 February 1999, at 12:48 p.m.

The loaches imported from Malaysia are notorious for having internal parasites. The best thing to cure them with is Levamisole hydrochloride. You can get this drug from a farm feed supplier. It is available as 'oblates' or infectible. Use 800mg per 10US gallons and make sure your pH is about 6.6. If the pH is above 7 the drug is made unusable.

The drug is absorbed through the gills of the fish, so even if your fish is too sick to eat, it will get the full effect. After 24 hours do a very very large water change. Repeat the dose after 3 to 4 days because any eggs or casings present in the fish are not affected by the drug. Therefore, you have to wait until they hatch.

Unfortunately the intestinal walls of some fish are so badly damaged by the parasites that they will not survive despite the fact that they will be free of the parasites.

I have found that big city vets know nothing about the use of this drug except for sheep and cattle. Tablets are available at the pharmacy, but they are prohibitively expensive, as they are now being used to boost the immune systems of AIDS patients. As a side effect, they also boost the immune systems of your fish.

The local lfs had 12 small clowns that they were going to destroy. We brought them home. 9 survived and are now big, fat and happy. Three died due to severe intestinal damage resulting in perforation of their abdominal walls. If you are 'into' purchasing wild caught fish, you should keep this drug on a regular basis, regardless what part of the world the fish come from. All wild caught fish should be suspected of carrying internal parasites, whether they appear to be ill or not. Transportation stresses decrease the fish's ability to withstand the debilitating effect of the internal parasites. Quarantine all of your fish and dose them. The drug has absolutely no effect on the biological filter.

I have a feeling that ick and other opportunistic parasitic infections of loaches has a lot to do with the fact that various internal parasites weaken the immune systems of these fish. Fish can have internal parasites and still look fine. It is only when the immune system of the fish is incapable of keeping these in check, that the fish begins to show signs of disease and disease susceptibility. (Much like with human beings who live in areas of the world that are endemic to Giardia.)

Levamisole hydrochloride is not a dangerous drug. It is somewhat expensive when purchased as the injectible. Unfortunately, the 'oblates' which are fed to sheep contain a lot of insoluble and soluble excipients. If you dissolve them and filter through a coffee filter most of the junk will be removed. However, some of the soluble stuff will get into the water. This is only pectin-like and aids in providing a slime coat on the fish and it breaks down to provide fertilizer for the plants.

Subject: Internal Parasites of Loaches - and their cure
Posted by Dr. Momfish on Thursday, 18 March 1999, at 2:21 p.m.

Oftentimes loaches with internal parasites will no longer eat. Trying medicated flakes which contain antibiotics or using antibiotics in the water can do serious damage to the bacteria in the filter or gravel bed resulting in high ammonia and nitrite levels and do nothing for the fish. This situation then does kill the fish.

Levamisole hydrochloride will not damage the beneficial bacteria in an aquarium. This medication is strictly used for various nematode and worm infections. The drug will also enhance the immune competence of fish, farm animals and humans.

Whenever you see a fish that is wasting away, as opposed to having external wounds or parasitic skin problems like ick, always assume that it is caused by an internal parasite. These things are much more common than most people realize. If you are in the habit of purchasing wild-caught fish, keep the injectible form of this drug in your refrigerator at all times. Use it routinely during the quarantine period. It's good insurance.[

In the wild most fish harbor parasites as these are endemic throughout the world. However, a healthy, well-fed fish can usually live with them, just as many human beings harbor Giardia but seem to suffer no significant ill effects. It's the tourists who come down with Montezuma's revenge! However, when these fish are caught and transported to exporters, wholesalers, retailers and then hobbyists, they have been put through enormous stresses (just for our selfish pleasure - and that includes me). Depending on how they have been treated, many of these fish become immune-compromised and many of them die before you ever get to see them in the local pet shop. Consequently, it is no wonder that many people watch with frustration as their newly acquired pets slowly waste away and die.

Given the fact that a healthy clown loach can live for over 20 years, it is a crying shame that the majority of them die very early on because of health problems that can be treated with relative ease and safety.

...

Noted sections highlighted.

 

[Sir_BlackhOle]

Well it does make some sense. Anyone else have an opinion on the issue? I'd like to hear what others are doing as well.

 

[MikeWinLDS]

Here are what some Geeks (members from FishGeeks.com forums) say...

http://www.aquaria.info/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=24213&highlight=parasite

Fungus type illnesses, bacterial infections, or regular injuries (torn fins, missing scales, etc) are all candidates for being removed from the main tank into a hospital tank (ht). diseases that infect a whole tank, like ich, parasites, velvet, etc you have to treat the whole tank, since everyone is, or could become infected. It's ALWAYS a good idea to hold new fish in a quarentine tank (qt) before adding them to your system to prevent the transfer of diseases. You can then treat them for internal parasites, or anything else that they might have without endangering your home tank and bacteria colony.

kate reccomended prazi-pro to me for internal parasites... discomed also treats parasites (think it contains levamisole) but it's not as effect on internal parasites unless combined with frozen food and fed to the fish...apparently levamisole isn't effective if your ph is over 7.0 either. flubendazole is another option that is found in cat/dog/bird wormers. For protozoan parasites, metro (metronidazole) is good if combined with food and fed, but it doesn't (supposedly) effect the multi-celled "worm" type parasites. After my latest experience with internal parasites (which can lay dormant for 4 months!) I will definately be treating ALL new fish in a quarentine tank before putting them into my main tanks.

Prazi Pro is the veterinary drug Droncit. It is available for sale at www.goldfishconnection.com

Using substrate in a QT/HT is just fine. Many people think a tank can get "sick", but the truth is that once you remove fish from a fish tank, the fish-borne pathogens (either virus, bacterial, or parasites) die without fish to host them. Within 48 to 72 hours the tank is "clean" - as is any substrate that is in there.

It is difficult and very inappropriate to give any advice regarding medications without knowing specific symptomology first. Dependant upon the fish type, the tank parameters, and overall fish health - this affects the medication. Prazi is very good for multicellular internal parasites. Metronidazole (aka Flagyl) is very good for internal/external unicellular (i.e. single celled) flagellated parasites. Program is very good for external parasites like anchors and fish lice. Erythromycin is the drug of choice for eye infections; kanacyn or Maracyn/MaracynII is for flex.

In general terms - unhealthy water or conditions are normally the number one driving force behind infected fish. Art's case with the internal parasites is the rarity. Normally you get flex, ich etc. from poor water conditions: infrequent water changes, high nitrates, temperature swings, pH swings, poor water chemistry, poor community tank selections (i.e. - aggressive fish with more peaceful fish), or just plain improper stocking.

When you do this, it generates stress on the fish. The minute that fish is stressed, it becomes susceptible to disease. When it becomes susceptible, it then will get infected with a disease that was ALWAYS present in ANY water supply you have - but the compromised fish can no longer fight it off.

IF the disease is bacterial born, it is best to remove the fish to a QT/HT tank and treat there. For the main tank, water changes are advised to lower and correct water chemistry issues.

If the disease is ich, or an internal/external parasite - then the whole tank must be treated. Most antiparasitics are community tank friendly - meaning they will not affect the bacterial bed in the tank. HOWEVER must anti-parasitics (methylene blue, malachite green) are photosensitive, so it is necessary to "black out" the tank to make the meds more effective.

You can. Prazi is one of the more well-tolerated anti-parasitics available in the fish world. But make sure you do it when you can keep a good eye on your fish, in case they become stressed.

Many fish owners routinely put their fish through a course of anti-parasitics. It is not unheard of.

http://www.aquaria.info/index.php?n...pic&t=23904&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

I've never had a clown get ick(knocks on wood). What I did have to deal with with the 1st ones was internal parasites. The following article explains it & provides a preventive cure that I swear by. http://www.loaches.com/faq_parasites.html
Parasites weakening the immune system is really why they're so prone to ick. They're extremely hardy fish after the first few months.

I ordered my Levamisole Hydrochloride from a Livestock Supply store in Wisconsin on-line. Sorry, but for the life of me I can't find that link. I got it as an injectable for cattle & sheep called Levasole(Levamisole phosphate). I bought a 500 mL bottle for ~$28 plus shipping. I administer 2 - 6mL doses in a 20g QT tank, so there's basically enough for 41 quarantines of wild caught fish purchases. About a 10 years' supply if resealed & kept in refrigerator.

Things of note highlighted.

 

[nonamethefish]

This would be good for suspectible fish for your peace of mind. Fish that are known for carrying parasites probably could use it. If the fish were dwarf gouramis from your LFs, I would probably treat them.

I havent medicated fish that arent sick...if it ain't broke...don't fix it.

Then again, as far as internal problems go, you won't know if its broke or not until time runs out.