do a lot of people use pmdd
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Edited for clarity - I construed PMDD to be Dry Chemicals such as those available from Greg Watson.
I would not go so far to say that dry chems (was PMDD) are a better product then the Seachem Flourish line. They address different needs within the hobby.
Some people are not comfortable with the calculating, measureing and mixing required with dry chems, this is but one example where the Flourish line would work better for them. For small tanks where mixing up 500ml of various products will last you years Flourish certainly has a leg up, just pop in lfs pick up a few bottles.
Use of Dry chems allows one to tailor the needs of their aquarium to the nth degree. Also when working with large tanks the cost of the Flourish line becomes prohibitive.
The two are just options to acheive a goal, both have pros and cons, you need to determine your overall needs and pick the product line that works best for you.
BTW, I use both, high light 120g gets solutions made with dry chems according to the PPS methodology and low light 12g cube is all Seachem following bottle directions and adjusting to my needs.
I would not go so far to say that dry chems (was PMDD) are a better product then the Seachem Flourish line. They address different needs within the hobby.
Some people are not comfortable with the calculating, measureing and mixing required with dry chems, this is but one example where the Flourish line would work better for them. For small tanks where mixing up 500ml of various products will last you years Flourish certainly has a leg up, just pop in lfs pick up a few bottles.
Use of Dry chems allows one to tailor the needs of their aquarium to the nth degree. Also when working with large tanks the cost of the Flourish line becomes prohibitive.
The two are just options to acheive a goal, both have pros and cons, you need to determine your overall needs and pick the product line that works best for you.
BTW, I use both, high light 120g gets solutions made with dry chems according to the PPS methodology and low light 12g cube is all Seachem following bottle directions and adjusting to my needs.
Just to clarify one point...while its one thing to compare "Greg Watson" type dry chemicals to premixed brands like Seachem and Kent Botanica its adding an apple to the oranges when you throw in the PMDD. PMDD (Poor Man's Dosing Drops) is better thought of as the recipe, if you will, not the ingredients. Many people use the dry chemicals with other methods such as the "Estimative Index" and also the PPS (Perpetual Preservation System).
Advantages of the dry chemicals include cost (you can buy a lifetime supply of most dry chemicals for the LFS price of a few large premix bottles) and the ablility to know exactly what you are adding to your tank and in what concentration.
Advantages of the dry chemicals include cost (you can buy a lifetime supply of most dry chemicals for the LFS price of a few large premix bottles) and the ablility to know exactly what you are adding to your tank and in what concentration.
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I think it all comes down to flexability, cost, and knowing exactly what your tank needs and what you are comfortable puting in it. For my high light tank I use Macros from the PMDD recipe and flourish for traces but for my moss tank I have a completly different recipe. I think you should experiment and find the equilibrium that works best for your tank. Just because there is no set waythat is better or works for everyone. 
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PPMD is IMO an outdated strategy to limit algae by eliminating most of the phosphate to the system. I don;t think there are many people following the PPMD recipe in its truest form anymore. Pretty much everyone doses phosphate now that we know that it is balance and growth that is the key, not limiting phosphate.
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I agree with Gomer as to the PMDD recipe that eliminates PO4 being outdated. I suppose the exception is for those whose tap water is phosphate rich.
Perhaps it would be better to pose the question in a manner that asks which people prefer:
Flourish N,P,K solutions vs. dry KNO3, KH2PO4, K2SO4
Flourish Trace vs. CSM(+B) or other trace element mixes
I have used both methods, and find them each to have good qualities. Seachem definitely makes a great product. Gnatster put it well, when he indicated that large aquariums can make it cost-prohibitive. Yet, the professional size bottles available do help. That's not to mention the various threads indicating the effect on algae that Excel may have.
As for the ability to highly customize the fertilization to a given tank, it can be done with both, but I find the dry ferts to be a little better suited for customizing levels - that's just my opinion.
Can healthy planted aquariums be maintained from both methods? I have no doubt that there are many members of this forum who can attest to both methods providing good results. I personally find both to produce good results, however, I realize that this doesn't provide a definitive answer to the question that was originally posted in this thread.
If advice is what is desired, I suggest picking one method and using it consistently for several months. Consistency, although it might not produce the desired results, can result in knowledge.
Good luck, and keep us posted on how things turn out.
Perhaps it would be better to pose the question in a manner that asks which people prefer:
Flourish N,P,K solutions vs. dry KNO3, KH2PO4, K2SO4
Flourish Trace vs. CSM(+B) or other trace element mixes
I have used both methods, and find them each to have good qualities. Seachem definitely makes a great product. Gnatster put it well, when he indicated that large aquariums can make it cost-prohibitive. Yet, the professional size bottles available do help. That's not to mention the various threads indicating the effect on algae that Excel may have.
As for the ability to highly customize the fertilization to a given tank, it can be done with both, but I find the dry ferts to be a little better suited for customizing levels - that's just my opinion.
Can healthy planted aquariums be maintained from both methods? I have no doubt that there are many members of this forum who can attest to both methods providing good results. I personally find both to produce good results, however, I realize that this doesn't provide a definitive answer to the question that was originally posted in this thread.
If advice is what is desired, I suggest picking one method and using it consistently for several months. Consistency, although it might not produce the desired results, can result in knowledge.
Good luck, and keep us posted on how things turn out.
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I've been using a pre-mixed fert up to this point (Yamato Green) with good results, but have been considering trying to fine tune it a bit more.
If I may, I'd like to add a question here - how are the dry chemicals to work with? I have big allergy/sensitivity problems, and I worry a tad about breathing in any dust, or even a skin reaction from some of the chemicals.
Is it recommended to wear gloves (and a mask in my case) when working with them?
If I may, I'd like to add a question here - how are the dry chemicals to work with? I have big allergy/sensitivity problems, and I worry a tad about breathing in any dust, or even a skin reaction from some of the chemicals.
Is it recommended to wear gloves (and a mask in my case) when working with them?
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257 Posts
Depends on the preparation... the stuff I got from Greg (my second batch, I actually did run out!) is ground a lot finer than the stuff I originally had mailed in from Canada, which was pelletized... I like greg's stuff better as it seems to dissolve faster...JanS said:
At any rate, search for MSDS (material data safety sheet) on the chemicals you plan to use, google find these for the chemicals we use... Now, these are typically written a little on the paranoid side (to limit liability)
but I would heed all the safety precautions in them if you're hyper-allergic. Do garden fertilziers bother you? With the exception of phosphate which can be pretty acidic in concentrate this stuff is pretty inert...
Jeff
sorry guys i didnt mean pmdd as a recipe butt i didnt know what to call it butt that
now i know to ask about dry ferts. instead of pmdd i dont believe in limiting po4 it is just as important as iron to me
where is the link to Estimative Index and Perpetual Preservation System ?\
i am new to this and need to be taught i have read lot of stuff on plants like books and on the net and the ferts still alude me to this day
i have been doing most this by trial and error so i have not done to bad by self its been some what succesfull for the last 2 years and i even moved to make things worst what i have is a 75 gal. planted and a 125 gal dry and the reson it is dry cuz i have not got what i want out of the 75 gal. tell me what to buy and i will buy it i will do what ever u think best (teach me ) i would very greatfull for that i current have : new no3 test kit (seachem)
new po4 test kit (seachem)
ap. kh and gh kit
and a tank with 220 watts of light wich is high light i know also pressurized co2, ph controller pinpiont timer for lights they stay on 12 hours a day i just cant these ferts down i have been using seachem i got them all including no3 and po4 sitting here and no3 had been low here lately 1 to 2 mg/l po4 has been .05 to .1 kh is 8 gh 16 that is last week test result any way i make a 20 gal. water change too weekly i hope someone cant help me thanks
now i know to ask about dry ferts. instead of pmdd i dont believe in limiting po4 it is just as important as iron to me
where is the link to Estimative Index and Perpetual Preservation System ?\
i am new to this and need to be taught i have read lot of stuff on plants like books and on the net and the ferts still alude me to this day
i have been doing most this by trial and error so i have not done to bad by self its been some what succesfull for the last 2 years and i even moved to make things worst what i have is a 75 gal. planted and a 125 gal dry and the reson it is dry cuz i have not got what i want out of the 75 gal. tell me what to buy and i will buy it i will do what ever u think best (teach me ) i would very greatfull for that i current have : new no3 test kit (seachem)
new po4 test kit (seachem)
ap. kh and gh kit
and a tank with 220 watts of light wich is high light i know also pressurized co2, ph controller pinpiont timer for lights they stay on 12 hours a day i just cant these ferts down i have been using seachem i got them all including no3 and po4 sitting here and no3 had been low here lately 1 to 2 mg/l po4 has been .05 to .1 kh is 8 gh 16 that is last week test result any way i make a 20 gal. water change too weekly i hope someone cant help me thanks
PPS: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/showthread.php?t=2303
EI: http://www.aquatic-plants.org/est_index1.html or check out the Barr Report
I've had fewer headaches since using dry ferts.
EI: http://www.aquatic-plants.org/est_index1.html or check out the Barr Report
I've had fewer headaches since using dry ferts.
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