I added the glutaraldehyde into the flow from the filter and the riccia was on the other end of the tank.It may be the level was to high.I'll move some riccia back into this tank and see.
glutaraldehyde instead of excel
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I guess you have found that Riccia doesn't like gluteraldehyde. I don't think I have ever overdosed a tank with Excel to see if it has the same effect on the Riccia. Looks like you may need to experiemtn with some Excel in the tanks for a few days 
Gluteraldehyde may be a good idea for those looking to eradicate Riccia from their tanks assuming it does no harm to any of the other plants in your tank!
Gluteraldehyde may be a good idea for those looking to eradicate Riccia from their tanks assuming it does no harm to any of the other plants in your tank!
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Is this the kind you are using? I can only seem to find gluteraldehyde solutions that say 28 day or 14 day formula. I wonder if that refers to the shelf life or to the reuseability. Many of the descriptions from different suppliers say reusable for the number of days. I just want to make sure I am not getting the wrong stuff.
I have also seen some listed as "activated". Does that make any difference?
Allan, what brand do you have? You can even PM me if you want.
I have also seen some listed as "activated". Does that make any difference?
Allan, what brand do you have? You can even PM me if you want.
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I am slowly answering my own questions...
Cidex activated Dialdehyde solution info can be found here:
http://www.safety.vanderbilt.edu/pdf/hcs_msds/Cidexactivated_09_05.pdf#search="Cidex"
From what I can tell, the activated means it has a higher pH, probably for better microbe killing. I don't know. The shelf life appears to be "chemically stable" under proper storage, ie 59-86degrees F. This product contains 97.45% water and 2.55% gluteraldehyde by weight.
I wonder if it makes a difference to our purposes if it is activated or if the day use applies to use or to re-using it stuff in a medical setting?
Now to see about pricing/shipping.
Cidex activated Dialdehyde solution info can be found here:
http://www.safety.vanderbilt.edu/pdf/hcs_msds/Cidexactivated_09_05.pdf#search="Cidex"
From what I can tell, the activated means it has a higher pH, probably for better microbe killing. I don't know. The shelf life appears to be "chemically stable" under proper storage, ie 59-86degrees F. This product contains 97.45% water and 2.55% gluteraldehyde by weight.
I wonder if it makes a difference to our purposes if it is activated or if the day use applies to use or to re-using it stuff in a medical setting?
Now to see about pricing/shipping.
Matt,do you have any riccia i could have to try with the excel.All of mine is wiped out.
Dennis,that is not the same brand but the discription is the same(28 day glutaraldehyde,activated diadehyde).I beleive the 28 or 14 day formula refers to how long the solution is good for after you mix in the activator that comes with it.That is for sterilization of medical equipment.What I did was not add the activator and dose the glutaraldehyde straight from the gallon jug.
Dennis,that is not the same brand but the discription is the same(28 day glutaraldehyde,activated diadehyde).I beleive the 28 or 14 day formula refers to how long the solution is good for after you mix in the activator that comes with it.That is for sterilization of medical equipment.What I did was not add the activator and dose the glutaraldehyde straight from the gallon jug.
Glutaraldehyde - The Highest Purity
25% solution
0-18ºC 16220 Box 10x10ml ampoules 21.00
You can do a 1:9 dilution (10 mL glutaraldehyde to 90 mL of water) to give you 100 mL of 2.5% solution per ampule. That's 1 liter of glutaraldehyde for $21 + shipping. Although some other places might sell bulk for less (not sure, haven't checked) this type of packaged glutaraldehyde is preferable since each ampule is packed in inert nitrogen so there's no breakdown or adverse reactions since it's not exposed to air/oxygen. You can mix up 100 mL batches and dose them as needed so you won't waste much of it.
Heck, if you have larger tanks...
0-18ºC 16521 50% Solution 4x1 liter 67.00
1 liter solution to 19 liters of water will give 20 liters of a 2.5% solution. This is 4x1liters of glutaraldehyde, so you'll get 80 liters. For $67 + shipping. Less than a buck per gallon!
I'm not sure why the riccia is dying. Are you dosing straight into the tank? I suspect that if the entire bunch of riccia is being hit with too concentrated a solution of glutaraldehyde, the fine plantlets won't be able to recover & will die slowly. Try to add the glutaraldehyde in a very diluted form.
Allen, you said the riccia died slower in the 60 gallon tank. I think it's because as you added the glutaraldehyde, it was more easily diluted in the 60 gallons before it hit the riccia as opposed to the 10 gallon tank.
Maybe when you do a WC next time, add the dosage into a bucket of water instead of dosing straight into the tank. Or you can try adding a bit at a time, throughout the entire length of the tank and avoiding the patches of riccia?
I'm looking forward to the remainder if your experiments!
25% solution
0-18ºC 16220 Box 10x10ml ampoules 21.00
You can do a 1:9 dilution (10 mL glutaraldehyde to 90 mL of water) to give you 100 mL of 2.5% solution per ampule. That's 1 liter of glutaraldehyde for $21 + shipping. Although some other places might sell bulk for less (not sure, haven't checked) this type of packaged glutaraldehyde is preferable since each ampule is packed in inert nitrogen so there's no breakdown or adverse reactions since it's not exposed to air/oxygen. You can mix up 100 mL batches and dose them as needed so you won't waste much of it.
Heck, if you have larger tanks...
0-18ºC 16521 50% Solution 4x1 liter 67.00
1 liter solution to 19 liters of water will give 20 liters of a 2.5% solution. This is 4x1liters of glutaraldehyde, so you'll get 80 liters. For $67 + shipping. Less than a buck per gallon!
I'm not sure why the riccia is dying. Are you dosing straight into the tank? I suspect that if the entire bunch of riccia is being hit with too concentrated a solution of glutaraldehyde, the fine plantlets won't be able to recover & will die slowly. Try to add the glutaraldehyde in a very diluted form.
Allen, you said the riccia died slower in the 60 gallon tank. I think it's because as you added the glutaraldehyde, it was more easily diluted in the 60 gallons before it hit the riccia as opposed to the 10 gallon tank.
Maybe when you do a WC next time, add the dosage into a bucket of water instead of dosing straight into the tank. Or you can try adding a bit at a time, throughout the entire length of the tank and avoiding the patches of riccia?
I'm looking forward to the remainder if your experiments!
Google cache. I can't find the original thread. Or rather, haven't looked for it.
PlantedFanatics.com :: View topic - Effects of Seachem Flourish Excel on BBA
Conclusion
The effects of Seachem Flourish Excel on BBA were documented with images and texts. It shows that Seachem Flourish Excel caused the BBA to turned red within 24 hours. The BBA gradually turned white over 120 Hours and disintegrate slowly thereafter.The experiment shows that Seachem Flourish Excel has successfully eliminated BBA. We would advise that Seachem Flourish Excel should not be use as a permanent way of removing BBA, as solving the root of the problem is the key to prevent future outbreak. We realised that Flourish Excel should not be used in large amount on mosses, riccia, and fissidens. It may cause them to turn brown or even kill them.
So MatPat, high doses of Excel *will* kill riccia. =)
PlantedFanatics.com :: View topic - Effects of Seachem Flourish Excel on BBA
Conclusion
The effects of Seachem Flourish Excel on BBA were documented with images and texts. It shows that Seachem Flourish Excel caused the BBA to turned red within 24 hours. The BBA gradually turned white over 120 Hours and disintegrate slowly thereafter.The experiment shows that Seachem Flourish Excel has successfully eliminated BBA. We would advise that Seachem Flourish Excel should not be use as a permanent way of removing BBA, as solving the root of the problem is the key to prevent future outbreak. We realised that Flourish Excel should not be used in large amount on mosses, riccia, and fissidens. It may cause them to turn brown or even kill them.
So MatPat, high doses of Excel *will* kill riccia. =)
After looking in the CRC handbook for possible polycyclo compounds, I'm guessing the side-chains in the polycycloglutaracetal (active compound) of Excel seems to make it less toxic. Not sure if the cyclo side chains actually allow for more carbon molecules per molecule of the polycyclo compound, but it makes the compound less toxic and/or prolongs the shelf-life.
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Epicfish, nice find there. I really am no good at internet searches.
Their boilogical grade looks more economical at 450ml 25% for $15. The equals 4.5 liters at 2.5% dilution. Since the other gluteraldehyde they ofer is pure for EM fixative, I would imagine that the steralization stuff marketed for hospitals/doctors is biological grade. Maybe not though.
With shipping, probably 6-8 buck your talking about $5 a liter. 'Course, for $1.50 more you can get 450ml of 50% solution, or 9 liters of 2.5%, or $2.66 a liter. Excel is $38 plus shipping for 4 liters. IF you want smaller amounts of Excel, it is way more expensive....$7.50 for 500ml plus shipping.
Their boilogical grade looks more economical at 450ml 25% for $15. The equals 4.5 liters at 2.5% dilution. Since the other gluteraldehyde they ofer is pure for EM fixative, I would imagine that the steralization stuff marketed for hospitals/doctors is biological grade. Maybe not though.
With shipping, probably 6-8 buck your talking about $5 a liter. 'Course, for $1.50 more you can get 450ml of 50% solution, or 9 liters of 2.5%, or $2.66 a liter. Excel is $38 plus shipping for 4 liters. IF you want smaller amounts of Excel, it is way more expensive....$7.50 for 500ml plus shipping.
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OCHCH2CH2CH2CHO
I would think so, logically. It would seem that activation would kick off an H or OH, possibly then forming longer chains through a C=C double bond. This should make it more stable and less toxic, plus more alkaline?
Yes, no?
When is the auction?The weekend of the 14th is the only time I can't make it.If it is that weekend maybe you could mail it to me.LMK.
I concur and have done this personally. It will even kill shrimp and snails if dosed too high for too long.
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hey allen, I have a TON of riccia growing wild in a little tub that i used to have daphina in.... i would be more than willing to donate a big protion for you to expierment with on this one, for the price of shipping, or I will just send it regular mail for free if you think it will make it. Send me a PM if your intrested
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If anyone cares, an update... I ordered the 450ml of 25% biological grade gluteraldehyde from the link epicfish posted. The company is Electron Microscopy Sciences. Order took about 5 minutes and they were very friendly. Order ships Monday so I will update whenI get it and the final price with shipping.
Update
When I first started with the glutaraldehyde it seemed to kill all the riccia.But I just found a few small 1/2" pieces in the 10g.
MrSanders,thanks for the offer.
Also the bolbitis has grown 1" or 2 and the leaves are wider.this plant has done nothing in the last 6-8months.
When I first started with the glutaraldehyde it seemed to kill all the riccia.But I just found a few small 1/2" pieces in the 10g.
MrSanders,thanks for the offer.
Also the bolbitis has grown 1" or 2 and the leaves are wider.this plant has done nothing in the last 6-8months.
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