Going Porcelain

19450 Views 204 Replies 17 Participants Last post by johnwesley0, 22 d ago

johnwesley0

Discussion Starter · Feb 23, 2021

I've been experimenting with a ten gallon Chinese porcelain bowl as a suitable aquarium over the years. I'd had pretty good success using a Fluval cannister set up and a couple of sprigs of anubias barteri The bowl gets about an hour of direct sunlight a day. Things were fine until I started experiencing a series of nitrogen cycle crashes long before I properly understood what cycling actually meant. But, since Jan 4, 21 I've had terrific results using nothing more than a container of old bio media from the old setup and the addition of about 4 lucky bamboo plants (a fifth got water-logged and died.) Just gravel substrate; the curved walls of the bowl direct all fish waste to its center where there is now a thin layer of mulm. The parameters have been stable for nearly six weeks: 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 15-20 ppm nitrates. Not quite sure how to attach a photo, but I like the conservatory look it lends to my Brooklyn flat. The only Con is that the silica in the porcelain tends to attract diatoms.

21 - 40 of 205 Posts

jatcar95

· #21 · Apr 19, 2021

Looks like the floaters are maybe salvinia minima, they're great (and much less messy than duckweed)!

Reactions: 1

johnwesley0

Discussion Starter · #22 · Apr 20, 2021

I spent most of yesterday worrying whether the packing media the lily bulb/rhizome came in was peat moss because it never occurred to me to switch it to a different substrate. My tap water is already pretty soft and I know from experience that filtration tends to lower ph over the long run. So, I got up this morning perfectly prepared to replant the lily when upon close examination, I realized its tiny leaves are already unfolding:

Guess I'll leave well enough alone?

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johnwesley0

Discussion Starter · #23 · Apr 21, 2021

I'm starting to see why people enjoy dirted tanks so much. Dirt adds a whole other dimension to the hobby. So, this morning's mission was to order the API KH/GH test kit. I've been guessing at my water's hardness and alkalinity by proxy for too long and I'm beginning to realize that I have a growing adolescent lily in my bowl. Guessing may no longer be good enough. So, back went the seashell rock which was also prompted by a sudden drop in PH from ~730 to 703.

I think the peat in the lily pot may be the culprit here. I lifted the entire pot out of the water in order to tuck in some root tabs. I actually did it several times and the result was that with each lifting, the tannins dripped from the bottom of the pot like a perking coffee maker.

The tannins will clear up, I'm sure. I'm not worried about it. But helping those lily leaves to reach the surface of the water is now my chief goal.

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mistergreen

· #24 · Apr 21, 2021

The tannins won't clear unless you remove them.

johnwesley0

Discussion Starter · #25 · Apr 21, 2021

Got it. Hoping that with regular 20% water changes every few weeks it will dissipate. Trying hard not to let the discoloration make me crazy. Also, hoping that once the lily looks healthy and strong, I can just re-pot it. Here's the little darling on Day 3 in her new home (I've already decided she's a girl.)

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dwalstad

· #26 · Apr 21, 2021

Cute little lily! I wouldn't worry about the tannins. There part of the swamp effect where lilies thrive.

Reactions: 1

johnwesley0

Discussion Starter · #27 · Apr 22, 2021

Been playing with the water hardness test kit since it arrived shortly after lunch. It confirms what I already intuited, that my water is very soft, probably too soft for the most exotic aquarium plants. It also explains why the neighborhood pet stores carry such a small selection (annubias, and lucky bamboo, as it happens, being among the most popular.)

My KH is about the same in bowl water and tap - 3-4 dKH

But, my GH is almost 5x greater in the bowl than right out of the faucet 1 dGH versus 5 dGH.

The recent addition of some peat and re-addition of the sea shell rock to the bowl are confounding factors. The PH seems to have stabilized at 7.03. It took the rock a few weeks to pull the PH up to 7.5 before I got nervous. Perhaps, I should just let it do its thing before I do anything more drastic (like repotting the lily into some Miracle Gro?)

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mistergreen

· #28 · Apr 22, 2021

What soil is the lily in now?

johnwesley0

Discussion Starter · #29 · Apr 22, 2021

Oh, it's the peat moss that came with the packaging. That's one of the confounding factors.

mistergreen

· #30 · Apr 23, 2021

What's in the pot? Just gravel?

johnwesley0

Discussion Starter · #31 · Apr 23, 2021

mistergreen said:
What's in the pot? Just gravel?

Just gravel.

mistergreen

· #32 · Apr 23, 2021

Oh, the lily will live off the bulb but after a while it’ll need nutrients.

Reactions: 2

johnwesley0

Discussion Starter · #33 · Apr 23, 2021 (Edited)

mistergreen said:
Oh, the lily will live off the bulb but after a while it’ll need nutrients.

That sounds reasonable. In the meantime, I'll keep an eye on the KH level. If the sea shell rock isn't raising it sufficiently by the time the lily reaches 6 inches (the approximate distance to the surface) I'll consider adding some crushed coral or something. I have the salvinia to think about too.

johnwesley0

Discussion Starter · #34 · Apr 25, 2021 (Edited)

Today marks Lily's first week in her new home. So, like any proud parent I'm sharing a photo:

The PH is still dropping, I assume because of the peat moss packed around Lily's bottom. The dKH is 6; the dGH is stuck at 4. And, even though I know the water hardness and alkalinity are more important, it's the dropping PH - 6.9 - that is making me nervous; it was 7.3 just a week ago.

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mistergreen

· #35 · Apr 25, 2021 (Edited)

PH is 6.9? That’s not a problem. Your dKH will stabilize the pH.

Reactions: 1

mistergreen

· #36 · Apr 25, 2021

BTW, you can insert root tabs into the pot instead of using dirt for nutrients.

Reactions: 1

johnwesley0

Discussion Starter · #37 · Apr 25, 2021

That's good to know. At some point, I would like to just repot the bulb without all of the peat moss. I feel stupid not asking the store manager what kind of soil it was before I planted it.

jake37

· #38 · Apr 26, 2021 (Edited)

When i was searching about this topic i came across a paper that measured beneficial bacteria in the tank (it was really focused on substrate vs filter) and it found that the bulk of the bacteria was in the filter in material like the sponge and the substrate didn't have that much.
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However the paper didn't really answer the question of what is sufficient beneficial bacteria and if it will reside on plant matter or similar. I know there are a lot of people with larger tanks (300,400+ gallons) that can run a tank just fine without a filter as long as there is adequate circulation (one discus keeper was telling me about his 400 gallon tank). This doesn't really answer your question nor does it answer the question of where the beneficial bacteria is in his tank (he had a very strong pump (I think it was 800gph but maybe 1500gph) that pulled the water from the bottom (the tank had two holes in the bottom - one input to the pump and the other output but no filter connected to the pump). The description isn't exactly accurate because there is a raised inlet outlet connected to the two bulkheads that goes above the substrate.
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Anyway I'm not sure the beneficial bacteria is actually in the water column but i'm pretty sure it does require some circulation of the tank water.
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It still begs the question just how much do you need. In my smaller tanks (40b and smaller) i just use sponges but my larger tank (120) i do use an fx6.
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Also i think a bit depends on fish load. 5 zebra danios is pretty low bio load.

johnwesley0 said:
So, one question came up on another fish forum concerning the role of beneficial bacteria (BB) in the water column. The other forum which can safely be characterized as a Nitrogen Cycle hub, the insistence is that BB only exist on things : the bio-media, substrate, decorations, etc. And, that the water column has to be filtered through it. But, I question that since I've had no filtration for almost two months and cycled fairly quickly (two weeks) with nothing more than 7 gallons of standing water and five zebra danios. Oh, and four lucky bamboo plants. Is it possible for lucky bamboo to convert that much ammonia that quickly or can "floating" bacteria contribute its share to the nitrification process?

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johnwesley0

Discussion Starter · #39 · Apr 26, 2021

jake37 said:
When i was searching about this topic i came across a paper that measured beneficial bacteria in the tank (it was really focused on substrate vs filter) and it found that the bulk of the bacteria was in the filter in material like the sponge and the substrate didn't have that much.
-
However the paper didn't really answer the question of what is sufficient beneficial bacteria and if it will reside on plant matter or similar. I know there are a lot of people with larger tanks (300,400+ gallons) that can run a tank just fine without a filter as long as there is adequate filtration (one discus keeper was telling me about his 400 gallon tank). This doesn't really answer your question nor does it answer the question of where the beneficial bacteria is in his tank (he had a very strong pump (I think it was 800gph but maybe 1500gph) that pulled the water from the bottom (the tank had two holes in the bottom - one input to the pump and the other output but no filter connected to the pump). The description isn't exactly accurate because there is a raised inlet outlet connected to the two bulkheads that goes above the substrate.
-
Anyway I'm not sure the beneficial bacteria is actually in the water column but i'm pretty sure it does require some circulation of the tank water.
-
It still begs the question just how much do you need. In my smaller tanks (40b and smaller) i just use sponges but my larger tank (120) i do use an fx6.
-
Also i think a bit depends on fish load. 5 zebra danios is pretty low bio load.

Thank you very much for returning to one of my earliest questions. When I took out my old bio rings which had just been sitting at the bottom of my bowl in their old basket, I thought - as you did - "They're not doing me any good there. Might as well put them away until I need a filter again." But, nearly five months after my last successful nitrogen cycle, I have no idea what's maintaining my nitrate level at 20 ppm despite 8 or 9 partial water changes of 20% each?

jake37

· #40 · Apr 27, 2021

First I think you should measure ammonia and not nitrate to determine the effective of the beneficial bacteria however since the fishes are doing well it is clearly adequate. I suspect as long as your tank has good circulation it will do just fine. With only 5 danio i am a bit surprise the nitrate level is so 'high'. Do you have anything in the tank consuming nitrate (like plants) ? My 5 gallon tank which has a small sponge filter has nitrate of around 2ppm. In this tank i have 6 neon - 4 ember - 20ish mystery snail (young) and a some shrimp:

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By the way there is a paper that compares media for holding bacteria and bioballs and ceramic rings are not that great - i believe the most effective was K1 media (in a mbr - the mbr part is important) followed by sponges. Anyway as long as there is some circulation i suspect the rocks (substrate) is just fine for the low fish population.

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