[Nevermore]

I'm using PPS-Pro and have really been struggling with how much CO2 I should use in my aquariums. The SOP for PPS-Pro is 1 bps. I can't seem to be able to make that work. I would really like to grow HC and everything I've read about HC says that not having enough CO2 is a common reason for failure with the plant. I believe my circulation is good, I can see things being blown all over. I'm at 1.5 bps right now but am considering bumping the flow up. I'm curious if other people using PPS-Pro and 1 bps have been able to grow a lawn of HC. If so, I'll start looking into other possible factors.

 

[BJRuttenberg]

BPS don't matter, your target should be to supply enough co2 - most tend to prefer 15-30 ppm. The way to measure your co2 concentration is measure your KH and PH - there is a calculation of determining co2 once you have theses measurements. Check out this site here: http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm

Also, I dont know what your tanks specs are but also not having enough light or not having warm enough water will impede growth. For example, I was growing HC in a 10 gal unde 40 watts and it would not grow. I bought an 80 watt light and now it's growing like gangbusters!

 

[Nevermore]

BPS don't matter, your target should be to supply enough co2 - most tend to prefer 15-30 ppm. The way to measure your co2 concentration is measure your KH and PH - there is a calculation of determining co2 once you have theses measurements. Check out this site here: http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm

Also, I dont know what your tanks specs are but also not having enough light or not having warm enough water will impede growth. For example, I was growing HC in a 10 gal unde 40 watts and it would not grow. I bought an 80 watt light and now it's growing like gangbusters!

From the Newbie Guide to PPS-Pro:

How much CO2 do I need in the water?

A good target is about 1 bps (bubble per second) which is simple to do and safe to fish and sufficient to plants.

Even a tank planted with low light plants can benefit from added CO2

What happened to the "30 ppm Ideal"?

Maintaining 30ppm can be challenging and risky for the fish. Moderate levels about 15ppm are natural and provide plenty of carbon for the plants and allows a much greater safety margin.

[

The chart has been found to be very inaccurate because of such things as phosphate and acids in the water which throw it off.

 

[Edward]

HC hates deep water, how deep is yours?

 

[Nevermore]

It's 14" from the substrate to the top of the tank. The light is sitting on the top of the tank. It's a 20g aquarium.

 

[houseofcards]

HC doesn't even need co2 to grow. I would agree with Edward that it's tough to grow it in a deep tank, but 14" doesn't sound that bad. What is your lighting?

 

[DarioDario]

What are the facts about deep water that limits its growth? I haven't heard that before...curious

 

[MartialTheory]

What are the facts about deep water that limits its growth? I haven't heard that before...curious

I believe it is due to a number of conditions. One is that depending on ur light, there may not be that much light penatration to the bottom of the tank. I think T5 HO is the best for that penatrating power. MH can do the same but it is due to the inital max lux it produces.

Second the deeper the tank, the more likely Co2 and nutrient circulation does not reach it. Not that it can't be done but its just harder to do so.

I'm really just guessing but it seems most logical to me. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[DarioDario]

If you took the same volume of water and stretched it out so that i was shallower and had the same point source of CO2, that would just allow for more light to reach it and co2 availablity would actually decrease ( evaporating out and unable to reach the far ends of the tank). Tom Barr has an article explaining how he was able to grow HC with just excel so I suppose there are many ways to get it to thrive. I'm on my third try with this thing. I got mine from LFS which gets it from a dealer that grows it aeroponically and under hallides. Crossing fingers.

 

[Nevermore]

HC doesn't even need co2 to grow. I would agree with Edward that it's tough to grow it in a deep tank, but 14" doesn't sound that bad. What is your lighting?

It's 2 X 24W T5HO.

 

[jmhart]

Well, yeah, that 1 bps thing really didn't make sense...1 bubble per second could be great for a small tank, but no where near enough for a larger tank.

KH vs pH for a start, drop checker better yet.

Yeah, doubt it's the depth, 14" isn't deep at all.

48 watts, eh? How old are the bulbs?

 

[Nevermore]

The bulbs are brand new.

 

[jmhart]

So I understand, it's 2x24w, as in the lights are parallel to each other, or are they end to end?

What I mean is, 48w ove the same area, right?

Also, I think, as we are discussing in your other thread, I'd either up your GH or be sure that you are dosing Mg according to PPS

 

[Robert Hudson]

Originally Posted by snickle
How much CO2 do I need in the water?

A good target is about 1 bps (bubble per second) which is simple to do and safe to fish and sufficient to plants.

Even a tank planted with low light plants can benefit from added CO2

What happened to the "30 ppm Ideal"?

Maintaining 30ppm can be challenging and risky for the fish. Moderate levels about 15ppm are natural and provide plenty of carbon for the plants and allows a much greater safety margin.

Well, yeah, that 1 bps thing really didn't make sense...1 bubble per second could be great for a small tank, but no where near enough for a larger tank.

Yeah 1 bps does not equal 15ppm... it could easily be far less than that. There may be flaws in using the pH/KH chart chart, but it is an estimated rule of thumb method, just like watts per gallon for lighting, and its certainly more scientific than just a blanket one bubble per second estimate. The chart has been very effective for a long time, and Chuck Gadd who designed the chart actually puts the ideal level between 15 and 20ppm, not 30 or higher.

The Barr method or estimated index is by far in much wider use than Eds PPS method, and the estimated index calls for high c02 levels that push the limit if you have intensive lighting.

Yeah, doubt it's the depth, 14" isn't deep at all.

I don't think its a c02 issue when it comes to depth. Some plants, including HC have evolved to grow in water that barely covers the plant, or two or three inches of water at the most. The more shallow the water is, the quicker HC spreads. I think its more than just light and C02, although water diffuses light the deeper you go.

 

[Nevermore]

Yes, that's 48w with the bulbs parallel to each other.

I am dosing as per protocol. I don't have a test kit for GH, I should probably get one.

 

[Nevermore]

Yeah 1 bps does not equal 15ppm... it could easily be far less than that. There may be flaws in using the pH/KH chart chart, but it is an estimated rule of thumb method, just like watts per gallon for lighting, and its certainly more scientific than just a blanket one bubble per second estimate. The chart has been very effective for a long time, and Chuck Gadd who designed the chart actually puts the ideal level between 15 and 20ppm, not 30 or higher.

The Barr method or estimated index is by far in much wider use than Eds PPS method, and the estimated index calls for high c02 levels that push the limit if you have intensive lighting.

I used the chart a while ago and I remember it gave me a very high reading for my CO2, I forget what it was but it was so high I discounted it.

I don't like EI. It's wasteful of a precious resource: water.

 

[jmhart]

I don't like EI. It's wasteful of a precious resource: water.

You mean the most abundant substance on the planet? :tape2:

jk I know what you're saying.