[Seattle_Aquarist]

Hi Zapins,

You may not be old enough, but there is a laundry additive (now made by Dial) called 20 Mule Team Borax which is Borax. Borax is a white crystaline salt that contains 11.3% boron. I don't know what dosage to recommend, but it may be an easy obtainable source of Boron for your plants.

 

[Zapins]

Never heard of it before

I'll check my local shop to see if they have any. So its just pure borax and water - tank safe and all?

 

[Seattle_Aquarist]

Hi Zapens,

20 Mule Team Borax is a powder, and according to posts I have found it is 99.5% borax. Borax is used to correct boron deficiencies in soil. Apparently it doesn't take much.....sorry I do not have a dosage suggestion but I would start very, very, slowly.

 

[Zapins]

Hmm ok, I'll try pick some up tomorrow when I go grocery shopping. I'll have to do some number crunching to figure out the molar weight and what it all translates to in terms of ppm in my 55g. I'll take kekon's dosage of 0.02 ppm to be the target. I think I'll add 0.02 initially and then a few days later maybe 4-5 days later I'll add another 0.02 ppm so the plants can stockpile the initial dose and then have a reserve to draw on for the next few weeks.

 

[Seattle_Aquarist]

Hi Zapins,

Keep us posted, let us know how things progress! If a boron deficiency is similar to my Ca deficiency problem it takes about a week for me to start seeing improvement in the new leaves.

 

[Seattle_Aquarist]

Hi Zapins,

Here are some of the links I used:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borax

Borax MSDS: http://www.manchestercitysch.org/centraloffice/MSDS/20%20Mule%20Team%20Borax%20Natural%20Laundry%20Booster%20-%20Dial%20Corp..pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boron_deficiency_(plant_disorder)"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boron_deficiency_(plant_disorder)/wiki/Boron[/URL]

 

[hooha]

fyi, I looked over the weekend for Boric acid at the pharmacy - found it in near the ear and eye products, right beside the gylcerin bottle

 

[nfrank]

this observation about B is very interesting.
I have always had best luck with growing this plant in slow growing conditions which typically had lower light levels ... like 80 watts ( 2 linear 40w bulbs) over a 65g tank....also low N. This is obviously much different than the sometimes seen recommendation of high light to make this plant flourish.

In fact, high light can accelerate trace element defiiciencies.

Sometimes i would transfer nice macrandra specimens to high light tanks and the leaves would turn green. I had assumed it was due to the ratio of macros. I have used Tropica fertilizer for the past 15 years. It has 0.004% B. Maybe this was not enough for Rotala in the plant community in that higher light tank.

In higher light, however,i have had good success when using a soil substrate. More recently, that includes ADA AquaSoil which has provided me with some of the best rotala i have ever seen. These substrates may be providing adequate supply of certain trace elements (in combo with the TMG).

 

[Zapins]

I just found my old results.

These were the chemicals in my tank at the time I experienced problems with boron deficiency. These are in mg/l (or ppm if you like). I took other nutrient levels as well, but they are less important in my opinion (see further down if you are interested).

Three trials were run on each of the following tank water samples and averaged for the results below, except the room tank, which had one trial so it is the least accurate. I used a spectroscopy machine in the chemistry department at my old school.

::Adm. tank#1:: Adm. tank #2:::Room tank ::: Tap Adm. water
K ::::::: 82.6 ::::::::: 169 ::::::::::::::: 497 :::::::::: 0.223
Ca :::::: 71.2 ::::::::: 44.3 :::::::::::::: 88.4 ::::::::: 9.14
Mg:::::: 12.6 ::::::::: 9.27 ::::::::::::: 16.5 :::::::::: 1.78
Fe :::::: 1.64 ::::::::: 1.75 :::::::::::::: 5.99 ::::::::: 0.0292
B ::::::: 0.0611 :::::: 0.0481 :::::::::: 0.0918 :::::::: 0.0791
Zn :::::: 0.4 ::::::::::: 0.412 :::::::::::: 1.15 ::::::::: 0.0167

All the results:
::Adm. tank#1:: Adm. tank #2:::Room tank ::: Tap Adm. water
Ag :::::: 0.0 ::::::::: 0.0019 :::::: 0.0 :::::::::: 0.0064
Al ::::::: 0.0 ::::::::: 0.0 :::::::::: 0.0 :::::::::: 0.292
As :::::: 0.0028 ::::: 0.0097 :::::: 0.0 :::::::::: 0.0263
B ::::::: 0.0611 ::::: 0.0481 :::::: 0.0918 :::::: 0.0791
Ba :::::: 0.024 :::::: 0.0078 :::::: 0.0309 :::::: 0.009
Ca :::::: 71.2 :::::::: 44.3 :::::::: 88.4 ::::::::: 9.14
Cd :::::: 0.0 ::::::::: 0.0 :::::::::: 0.0 :::::::::: 0.0
Co :::::: 0.001 :::::: 0.0032 :::::: 0.0123 :::::: 0.001
Cr ::::::: 0.0 :::::::: 0.0 :::::::::: 0.0 :::::::::: 0.0
Cu :::::: 0.127 :::::: 0.238 ::::::: 0.326 :::::::: 0.0411
Fe :::::: 1.64 :::::::: 1.75 :::::::: 5.99 ::::::::: 0.0292
K :::::::: 82.6 ::::::: 169 ::::::::: 497 :::::::::: 0.223
Mg::::::: 12.6 ::::::: 9.27 :::::::: 16.5 ::::::::: 1.78
Mn :::::: 0.218 :::::: 0.256 :::::: 0.0 ::::::::::: 0.0844
Mo :::::: 0.0856 ::::: 0.122 :::::: 0.0808 ::::::: 0.0
Na :::::: 27.1 :::::::: 18.4 ::::::: 0.611 :::::::: 5.84
Ni ::::::: 0.0089 ::::: 0.0087 ::::: 0.0439 :::::: 0.0025
Pb :::::: 0.0 ::::::::: 0.0 ::::::::: 0.0 ::::::::::: 0.0
Si ::::::: 0.313 :::::: 0.403 :::::: 1.72 :::::::::: 2.83
Zn :::::: 0.4 ::::::::: 0.412 :::::: 1.15 :::::::::: 0.0167

Dredged up from the old old thread http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...lants-discussions/16603-copper-poisoning.html

 

[michal1982gabrielka]

hmm. never experienced that. Did you try increasing the dose of TMG? Is your GH good?
my macrandras do fine, 100% RODI and TMG for traces. I add ca/mg in proper ratio to get 4GH after water change.

Hi guys i'm new in this forum,however i'm a member of polish (i would say) main aquatic plants website forum at www.holenderskie.pl. I read alot APC and more I read more i'm confused.I just switch from ferropol to diy TPN and i notice similar R.macrandra stunted leaves etc......Before macrandra grows perfect with deep red colour... question to above treat... you said ca/mg you det 4gh and i would like to know what is your ca? mg?I've got ca-28 mg-8 which is around 6-GH but i dont think its issue of geting macrandra stunted in grow.The problem occur when i switched ferts also i havent dose any K as ferropol had some in it.So there is two supicions either to low on K or somthink is missing or even is too much in new fert..... my tank 400l ph continue 6.3 integrated with ph-controller kh-3 gh-6 po4-1.5,2.0 no3 5-10 light 1w/l 12hours a day TPN dosing 25ml a day(was 15)just increased due to suspicion lack of boron and zinc 3ppm k2so4 from now on... every day

 

[ashappard]

my parameters were posted just to throw them out as an example of what I was doing, but outside of those parameters the R.macrandra should still be fine. So GH4 isnt a limit or requirement. You have switched fertilizers and my experience is that I have trouble for a while until I adjust my dosing. By the way, the diy TPN is that from James' Planted tank?

welcome to the forum, and confused is not surprising - even within the US hobby people use very different methods to get success in growing aquatic plants. I think it is a testament to the flexibility of aquatic plants, and also to the similarity between all of the methods.

 

[michal1982gabrielka]

Diy is not from James'planted tank but based on experience of my colleague 0.26g Cu12% ,4.75g Fe 8%, 1.45 Mn 14%, 0.09g Zn 14%, 2.8ml borum (10g borun disolved in 250ml of water)0.1g Mo 6% 0.5g ascorbid acid 0.2g potasium everythink on 0.5l RO water

 

[skewlboy]

so is anyone using the boric acid Hooha mentioned?

 

[johnzhou2476]

Zapins, can you update us on your result. I'm having the same problem with my R. Macandra.

 

[Zapins]

Well. I bought another CSM+B which seemed to help. Since then I've let the tank that housed the macrandra go to pot, and its still in shambles now. I'm slowly redoing it, maybe I'll plant some more R. macrandra again and update in a few weeks when it grows in.