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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi

Unfortuantly i have some ich on my new cardinals i added few days ago.

I'm not sure what treatment i should use as i havent encounted an ich outbreak before.

My tank houses cherry shrimps, amano shrimps, ottos and cardinals. with a carpet of hairgrass eleocharis acc. so i know the medication should not contain copper.

I do not have an extra tank to move my shrimp so unfortuantly they'd have to stay in the tank during the medication time.

my tanks temperature is currently at 79f/23c

theres only afew cardinals that are infected, approximately 5 of them with 1-3 white spots on them. Is it an absolute must that medication is required? I remember seeing few dots on new added cardinals but it only lasted 2-3 days then gone for a month, till i added the new fish 3 days ago. (i do understand although when parasite is not attached to a host it can still be alive at the bottom of the tank)

Well the bottom line is what are your experiences and what works?

Thank you
 

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Ich is like the common cold, always present and a little bit of stress on the fish brings it out. I have found that raising temps to 82-84 for a few days and good clean water free of N3 will send it back into remission. No need to dose unless it gets really bad but by then it's usually to late.
 

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I've read that only raising the temperature does not necessarily kill this disease. In order to properly kill it, you'll need to slowly raise temperature 1 degree every day to 85 degrees and add antibiotics. Once you get rid of it, bring the temperature down one degree a day.

Lives of fish are not guranteed during the temp raise, but this is a common sacrifice people have to make when they get ich. Once Ich is gone, fish that were infected before tend to develop an stronger immunity, but that doesn't mean they can't get it again.
 

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I personally have had the best success with raising the temperature to 85-90 degrees and doing a half-dose of a commercial ich cure containing either methyline (spelling?) blue or malachite green with salt.

Also, keeping the temperature in the 80-84 degree range consistently won't hurt your fish and will usually curb most outbreaks of Ichthyophthirius.
 

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For information about Pseuro's nice tank, follow this link (in case you didn't know).

Given the circumstances, I would scoop the fish out, all of them, and place them in a tub with airstone and heater (if no spare tank is available) and treat them there. In the meantime, increase the temperature of the aquascape tank to 85F and leave for a week or so. Add the fish back after 2 weeks.

Andrew Cribb
 

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With due respect to all the above mentioned suggestions- the easiest way to get rid of the ich - even on cardinals- is to use good old QUICK CURE. It says use a half-dose for tetras, but I have dealt with this countless times of the years of doing maintenance for clients and I can assure a 2/3 the recommended dose will knock out any ich within 3-4 days. It is absolutely harmless to the plants, and the blue color is kind of cool for the 30 min. or so it lasts. I have done close to a full dose on cardinals for first day or so with no ill-effects also. I have never lost shrimp either. Just recently, in fact, I had to dose a tank for about 8 days at 2/3 recommended dosage and all shrimp are totally fine.
 

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Raising temperatures doesn't kill ich--it only allows it to move through it's 'stages' more quickly than you usually notice at 78*F or so. You never completely rid your tank of this thing...it just sits dormant, and if a fish is stressed or going through something that affects its immune system, that's when ich begins to progress through its life cycle. So, you could dump all sorts of chemicals in, scrub it to kingdom come (or even by a new tank and decor for that matter)...but as soon as you put your fish back in, know that they're bringing it right alone with them.

I haven't had a case of ich in over 6-7 years, but even then I didn't do anything special: I just let it takes its course and finish on its own. Sometimes turning your tank into a chemical soup or drastically raising your temperatures can add undue stress to the already stressed fish, which can ultimately do more harm than the actual ich. The ich runs its course, the cysts on the fish drop off, they acclimate to the tank, and hopefully you'll never see it again.

In my experience, maintaining a stable environment and solid water parameters will do a fish far better than trying to do a bunch of fixes--they will see the parasite through, and be nice and healthy afterward.
 

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jsenske said:
With due respect to all the above mentioned suggestions- the easiest way to get rid of the ich - even on cardinals- is to use good old QUICK CURE. It says use a half-dose for tetras, but I have dealt with this countless times of the years of doing maintenance for clients and I can assure a 2/3 the recommended dose will knock out any ich within 3-4 days. It is absolutely harmless to the plants, and the blue color is kind of cool for the 30 min. or so it lasts. I have done close to a full dose on cardinals for first day or so with no ill-effects also. I have never lost shrimp either. Just recently, in fact, I had to dose a tank for about 8 days at 2/3 recommended dosage and all shrimp are totally fine.
This blue color is probably the methyline blue or malachite green (which is really more of a deep blue) that I mentioned above. I too find it particularly effective, but I also like to raise the temperature in order to a) help get rid of the the ich and to b) get the fishes' metabolism to work on fighting off anything secondary that might try to hitch a ride.

skylsdale,

I have a feeling that if it were true that heat does not kill (or at least deter) ich, people would have had far less success fighting it off using heat. If heat does indeed speed up the ich, I think affected fish would be covered before long...instead of getting better.

I have tested this before using platies and no treatmeant (heat or otherwise), and the ich did not "run its course", it killed the fish in three days.
 

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"...and heat does speed up the metabolism of the organism, thus forcing it more rapidly through its one vulnerable stage. Higher heat (above 86º) may stress the parasite." (taken from: http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml)

Salt will kill the parasite...but not heat in and of itself. Heat simply speeds up its life cycle to get it to a stage where you can try to eliminate through some other method.

I would highly suggest everyone to check out the above link.
 

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Came straight form the article you told us to read.

"Adjusting the setting on the heater will do the job; don't try to raise or lower water temperatures faster than a couple of degrees an hour. Higher temperatures result in speeded-up metabolisms, both for the parasite and for the fish. Above a certain temperature (86oF is often quoted) the heat-sensitive parasite will be stressed. Its life cycle is interfered with, and it might even be killed."

It may possibly not kill ich, but raising temp should put the aquarist at an advantage, right? I know not everybody's comfortable with adding medicine to the tank (i'm not), but there's no proven method that says ich will disappear if you wait it out. THat's only if the tank runs out of hosts to thrive on.

I'm not a wiz, please correct me if i'm wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Wow.. thats alot to read up, i've learned alot..

my temperature is now at 81-82, as i dont want to raise it too quickly.
after abit of research, i've come to the understanding that salt and medication works for treating ich and either way has worked for others.
i'm not too keen of adding medication to my tank, i kind of want to try the salt method.
I'll keep everyone updated with what happens with my tank

just out of curiousity, my dosing of ferts remains on schedule?

actually regarding 'quick-cure' will the blue stain the tank? cause i've read that the meth blue will stain the tank or somethign liek that?

I do appreciate everyones suggestions and replies,
Thanks for the help
 

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It may possibly not kill ich, but raising temp should put the aquarist at an advantage, right?
That's what I said, isn't it? My point was that heat alone doesn't kill ich...yet a lot of people believe that it does.

My philosophy (which many may not agree with) is that a certain amount of natural selection is still healthy, even in our captive systems. I keep things fairly normal (parameters, etc.) in my systems, even when illness breaks out. I let things run their course. If something dies...then it dies. In the wild fish are constantly prone to disease, parasites, etc. As I said earlier, none of the tropical fish I've kept in the last 6-7 years have ever suffered ich or a similar infestation--and I NEVER quarantine.
 

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skylsdale said:
I actually had all the silicone seals on one of my tanks permanently stained turqoise from adding meth blue a LONG time ago. But I doubt it does anything to acrylic or "hard" plastics.
It will also stain driftwood, but the dye leaves the wood after a few weeks.
 
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