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Blue Spotted Sunfish Walstad 36gal

19K views 361 replies 11 participants last post by  PlentyCoup 
#1 · (Edited)
So this project is several months down the line June hopefully. It's all hinging on renovating my 400 gal pond. I thought I would be able to at least move the rocks out but nope, its Michigan and we have had rain, 3 days of 60° weather then snow then rain then this morning more snow...... i am so done with winter.

Anyway I need this post so that I can start visulizing this project and stop contemplating getting rid of the living room couch so I can have space to bring up my old 20gal........ sad to say ive been outvoted the couch is still im the living room and the tank is still in the basement.

I kmow the biggest hurdle for this tank will be getting enough plants all in the tank at the same time for the initial start up. I have no LFS that has enough plants at a reasonable price so I have to turn to online souces. this is what my plan looks like right now.

Shop #1 25% off order plant set #2 with swaps from set#4
Set #2 $28.95
  • Micranthemum Monte Carlo (never tried) (swap?)
  • Alternanthera reineckii varigated
  • Bacopa Caroliniana (swap)
  • Hygrophilia Pinnatifida
  • Hydrocotyle Leucocephala
Set #4
  • Hyptis Lorentziana (no)
  • Rotala Colorata (no?)
  • Persicaria sp. Kawagoeanum (swap w/ of bacopa in set#2)
  • Hydrocotyle Tripartita Japan
  • Lobelia cardinalis small form (swap w/monte carlo)
Single purcahse plant same seller
  • ludwigia peruensis
  • Hygrophila Corymbosa Compacta
  • Nesaea pedicellata
Shope #2
  • Red Flame sword
  • Red Tiger lotus sprouted

So I dont think those are enough plants to get me off the ground. I have in my nano tank, which is of course small so I am limited with how much i can transplant, these plants.
  • crypts, nurrii phang mutated, green gecko, bronze, lucens
  • sword little prince, micro
  • rotala h'ra, caterpiller
  • Ludwigia needleleaf
  • bacopa colorata
  • 3 buce
  • star grass

So im looking for other plant recommendations for plant purchasing sites and plants in general that I can see, in partucular if shop #1 carries. I need to have a robust enough selection to get the new tank off the ground. The shop with the lotus and sword has limited stock so i am open to a shop that carrues those plants and a larger selection. More bang for my buck considering shipping.
I still havent doubled checked the policy on giving shop names.

Moveing on to hardwear. Since my shubunkin is still in the tank i have a old marineland hanging filter and a Ehime classic 250 canister filter. The marineland filter will go but i think i will keep the canister. Ehime canisters are absolute work horses and i love them.

I also am in the market for a whole new light. My Finnix stingray went on the fritz a couple years ago, appearently it thought being a strobe light was better then just being a functioning light.

Substrate will be 50/50 compost sand again. I will have to find a new cap for the soil, as I think the the bluespots like a dark colored substrate. Not sure if I should go with a sand or small gravel.

Sorry @johnwesley0 the sunfish have won out over the apistos lol.
Ill be getting my fish from zimmermans i am not sure on quanity yet.
I will have
Blue spotted sunfish
Rainbow darters
Indicided native schooling/shoaling fish.
He has several species im leaning towards the smaller species. He has some p-class blustar endlers or spiketail platy all in the 1-2in range.
He also has dace, shiners and liberty molly. I think those might be too close to the size of the sunfish, they all run in the 3-4 in range.
I havent decided if i want a heater yet, a heater would be benefical for spawning.

So thats the basic plan now, send suggestions. Keeping me distracted saves the living room couch.
 
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#2 ·
I would lean heavily on the micro swords. They seem to be the only fast-growing rooted plants on your list and a 36 gallon tank will give you a lot of foreground to cover. The other plants are very pretty but I'm all about getting some roots and runners down first, then hoping the stem plants will work out. If the stem plants don't do well, you still have your crypts and the tiger lotus doing their thing.
 
#3 ·
Agree with John on the micro swords, or chain swords. Vals are also a good one to consider. I've have good luck with S Repens in my tank's foreground. Buce Plant is a great source and I've always gotten good quantities of healthy plants. They have a good DOA policy, you earn points on your purchases that can be used for discounts later, and shipping is reasonable. www.buceplant.com
 
#5 ·
Agree with John on the micro swords, or chain swords. Vals are also a good one to consider. I've have good luck with S Repens in my tank's foreground. Buce Plant is a great source and I've always gotten good quantities of healthy plants. They have a good DOA policy, you earn points on your purchases that can be used for discounts later, and shipping is reasonable. www.buceplant.com
I have a wheel thrown pot i need to be finishing decorating for class. Instead i have $123 worth of plants in my cart at buceplants....... 😅
 
#4 ·
Yes i figured i would need some fast growing carpet plant like the chain swords thay absouy took off in my nano. I figured plants like the conte carlo, hairgrass or other carpey pants wouldnt do the job.
I will add vals to the list.
What about dwarf sag? Any other fast growing foreground plants. I am know of buceplants have never ordered from the. Pearlingplants is the site that I have my 25% off coupon code so ill stick with them for first place of order, but they carry almost all stemplants which is why my list is a bit skewed in that direction.
They were one of the places i found who had floating tiger.

Ill swap to buceplants for lotus, swords and and other fast growing rooted plants. Ill check out their site and then amend my list.

Let me know know if any plants are on my list are a "dont bother" plant. I know i want the hygro pinn. Ive had that before and it was a stinning plant and hygos as a whole are pretty indestructable.
Ive never tried the renekii but i figured know would be the time with such a rich substrate. Ludwigias are hit or miss and rotalas are good stand bys for me.
Thanks
 
#7 ·
Ive never tried it but ive heard its touchy and i just dont think its worth the effort. I in no way way want to deal with plant that needs those requirments. I working on a revised plant list....... and still neglecting class work lol
 
#9 ·
So I've revised my plant list and right now its way, way more then I want to spend but dont think I can get around it..... espicially when I can't bring myself to dump a $24 buce from my cart. Lol and i havent even looked at crypts yet ugh.
So heres the new list
Pearling Plants revised list
Set #4 29.98 w/ 25% off final order price
  • Lobelia cardinalis small form
  • Rotala colorata or persicaria sp. Kawagoeanum (cant decide)
  • hydro. Trip. Japan
  • hygo. Pinnatifida
  • alternanthera reinckii varigated
Single plant
- hygro. Corymbosa compacta

From buce plants
  • echin. Marble queen
  • echin. Ozelot
  • echin. Red flame
  • tiger lotus
  • anubias barteri coffeefolia
  • mico sword
  • buce dark skeleton king, Starglitz, black pearl
  • Vall. Leopard
  • dwarf sag.

So i am close to $140 which is...... not what i wanted.
So i think my plan will be to get the dwarf sag, and micro sword and use them on opposite ends in the foreground and let them run wild. Now next question will one pot suffice or do i need to get their 3 pot option.
Next i dont think i need 3 swords.... so keep marble queen and choose between red flame or ozelot....
The driftwood plants are all ones ive wanted to try for years... dark skeleton king is just stunning.

Im unsure about the leopard val.
So for crypts i have a 2nd plant from my phang mutated, but nothing from green gecko or bronze yet.
Pink flamingo is very tempting but im not sure its worth the risk, so im looking for possibly one other crypt to add.
 
#12 ·
So i have looked through the crypts buceplants has and am going to skip pink flamingo. I am instead considering retrospiralis, albida cotata and axelrodi.

Ive been searching google for images of the plants in the tanks but im always cautious about the accuracy of the i.d of the plants in the photos, and of coures plants color differently in different tanks so it not really the best was to judge.
 
#13 ·
What is the success rate for tissue culture plants in a walsted tank? Their are a couple crypts im intreasted in that buceplants only has a tissue culture. Ive swung back to considering pink flamingo and also affins. You used to be able to find affins pretty readdily. Both are tissue culture. If i want them should i have them in the tank from the getgo or should i wait till the tank is established. I have never tried tissue cultures before....... my plant list just keeps growing 😅
 
#14 ·
I've used lots of tissue cultures before only because potted or bunched versions weren't available. The rate of success really depends on the plant, your substrate, your water...basically your tank in general. There's no way to guarantee that one particular plant is going to do well in the environment you create. Basically you put a bunch of different plants in and see which ones survive. Some will thrive, some won't, and some will just melt away. Tissue cultures just guarantee that there won't be any hitchhikers or algae already present on the plants you buy.
 
#16 ·
In my experience tissue culture plants are much more expensive, and the problems they solve either are unavoidable (algae) or not something I consider a problem (snails, other hitchhikers). If you can get it for a similar price to potted/bare-roots and it's the only option then there's nothing bad about it.
 
#17 ·
So this project had been shelved till next summer because I ran into issues with expanding the pond and preexisting sprinkler lines. So the plan was finish the pond next spring and my goldfish would be ok for one more winter indoors.
That was my plan until yesterday morning when i woke up to find my goldfish had died sometime in the night. It was a shock he was healthy despite being almost 10 years old. So i have no clue what happened and am sad to have lost my begging water dog, my mom in particular adored that fish.

So I now have a empty tank. I just had a new hood made for the tank to get rid of the ugly black one. I can post pics if anyone one is interested.

First order of business is a new light. I have $38 at my LFS from selling extra plants from my nano. I dont know what light brands they carry off the top of my head so I will call them to see. I am open to any suggestions for good lights. My last was Finnex Stingray and it was having flickering issues. I think it was only about 3 or 4 years old when it had the problem so i dont think i would go with tgat again.

I will be using 50/50 sand compost mix again and will re look at my plant list, and decide on fish stock.
 
#18 ·
Personally, i would have to go several degrees of magnitude above my present budget to get what I really want which is a totally programmable catwalk style light with dimmable LED bulbs, color combinations and multiple on/off sunrise/sunset settings. BUT at the price point you and I are both stuck at, I would be happy with a catwalk style light that can operate with an external timer/dimmer AND has about a 80/20 ratio of white bulbs to color bulbs. That last piece is important to me because I am reading more and more posts regarding people switching out their blue LED bulbs for more white lights in order to combat algae.
 
#19 ·
Price point is currently a hurdle yes. I have been squirreling away money for this project and I think I have about 150-175. 100 is a conservative amount for plants. It will probably be closer to 130. So that leaves me with roughly 50 for a light or 80 if my LFS has something that fits the bill.

I to have noticed the buzz in the community about white to blue light ratio but I am an awful person who never keeps up with posts and almost never comments on all the threads i read 😅


So that was at the top of my list to consider for a light. Catwalk is a must. Dimmable would be wonderful but my not in the budget. Timer conmpatable is a must thankfully I already have a timer. The kasa timer for my nano was in a 2 pack and for a basic timer i absolutely love the kasa.

I will get back monday with light options from my LFS.
 
#20 ·
Me researching lights "Ohhh Fluval 3.0 great brand, great warrenty, control led rage and color, customizable settings, absolutely everything I want in a light, its perfect its wonderful its $175.........$175.......... ugghhhhhhh 😭😭
 
#23 ·
I feel your pain. I have the Nicrew C10 which has some of those things but can only be set on and off once. So, I compromise: I manually dim the lights to 0% for a 4 hour siesta when I'm home. That way I can maintain my other settings (color mix and automatic sunrise/sunset) without using an external timer. But if I'm going away, I have to use the external timer to set up the siesta period and just live with the default colors and brightness until I get back.
 
#24 ·
Well I might be in a simular boat as you, Nicrew has made it to my short list of light lol.
A 30in C10 is on sale on amazon for $42.

I am still sorting through the differences of the finnex 24/7 series and the KLC, CRV, HLV, ALC etc. Those for a 30in range from $80-124. Hygger is another band i will research.

My LFS is not going to be much help. They have the fluval aquasky for $104 and the 3.0 for $175.
They had another brand dont have the paper i wrote thhe name on but it was $88 and not at all strong enough to grow plants by i don't think especially when it is not customizable in any way. At a depth of 24in the PAR was roughly 15.

So that's where I'm at so far. Maybe I squeeze one of the Finnex into my budget, ( ha ha ha).

I feel like i wasted $30 when i had the new hood made but I have cats, lots of pet hair soooo....
 
#27 ·
So I have been going around in circles researching lights and so far have acheived nothing other then a headache and the urge to beat my head against a wall.
So I am taking the day to switch gears and look and stocking options.
I think I am going to go full native from zimmermans and here is a list of his current fish stock.
White Product Black Font Communication Device


So i am thinking a mix of the bluespots and banded and of course a schooling/shoaling group.
I will lay all the blame at @johnwesley0 feet and his apisto setup for wanting fish that will breed in my setup.

I will contact Zimmermans and see what thoughts he has and then resume my light reserch.
 
#28 ·
So I have been going around in circles researching lights and so far have acheived nothing other then a headache and the urge to beat my head against a wall.
So I am taking the day to switch gears and look and stocking options.
I think I am going to go full native from zimmermans and here is a list of his current fish stock.
View attachment 75461

So i am thinking a mix of the bluespots and banded and of course a schooling/shoaling group.
I will lay all the blame at @johnwesley0 feet and his apisto setup for wanting fish that will breed in my setup.

I will contact Zimmermans and see what thoughts he has and then resume my light reserch.
As my babies get bigger, I do notice how much they look like tiny, little sunfish.
 
#31 ·
Back to lighting research now. I am waiting to hear back from Finnex on exact differences on their 24/7 series particularly the HLC and CRV. HLC runs 79 and CRV runs 130.
I still need to research them further and have some doubts about longevity. My Finnex only went 2.5-3 years before it had issues.

Been doing extensive research with Hyggar 957 and 973. They have very good reviews but so far i find their programming to be very confusing. I am also unsure if I can program a siesta into the light or if it would require an external timer. The price point is much easier to swallow at 52.99 and 62.99 respectively before a coupon they are currently running, they are also aluminum and mostly water proof. I know you can control brightness and color but I cant figure out if i can control the exact number of say reds active.

Nicrew is next on my research list.
The Fluval still looks lovely in every way lol.
The other light my LFS carried was lifeguard which i had never heard of and does not meet any of my light requirements.
 
#32 ·
Back to lighting research now. I am waiting to hear back from Finnex on exact differences on their 24/7 series particularly the HLC and CRV. HLC runs 79 and CRV runs 130.
I still need to research them further and have some doubts about longevity. My Finnex only went 2.5-3 years before it had issues.

Been doing extensive research with Hyggar 957 and 973. They have very good reviews but so far i find their programming to be very confusing. I am also unsure if I can program a siesta into the light or if it would require an external timer. The price point is much easier to swallow at 52.99 and 62.99 respectively before a coupon they are currently running, they are also aluminum and mostly water proof. I know you can control brightness and color but I cant figure out if i can control the exact number of say reds active.

Nicrew is next on my research list.
The Fluval still looks lovely in every way lol.
The other light my LFS carried was lifeguard which i had never heard of and does not meet any of my light requirements.
Looking up the Hyggers right now.
 
#34 ·
Just found this post on another forum that seemed to expaine the functions of the Hygger 957

This is what I know about Auto mode. You can specify the start time and the end time for the daylight period. The startup of the daylight period will begin at the specified start time with a 15 minute ramp up from off to 50%, then a 1 hour sunrise segment at 50%, and a 15 minute ramp up from 50% to 100%. The shutdown of the daylight period begins with a 15 minute ramp down from 100% to 50%, then a 1 hour sunset segment, and a 15 minute ramp down from 50% to off, ending at the specified off time.



If the daylight start time is specified as 6:00am and the stop time is specified as 6:00pm then the times will be as follows:



6:00am - 6:15am = ramp up from off to 50%


6:15am - 7:15am = sunrise at 50%


7:15am - 7:30am = ramp up from 50% to 100%


7:30am - 4:30pm = daylight at 100%


4:30pm - 4:45pm = ramp down from 100% to 50%


4:45pm - 5:45pm = sunset at 50%


5:45pm - 6:00pm = ramp down from 50% to off


This is where my two new lights are not operating properly. At 4:30pm they will ramp all the way down to off, skipping sunset.



You can also specify the start time and end time of the moonlight period. Moonlight has a 15 minute ramp up from off to 100% at the start and a 15 minute ramp down from 100% to off.



If the moonlight start time is specified as 8:00pm and the stop time is specified as 11:00pm then the times will be as follows:



8:00pm - 8:15pm = ramp up from off to 100%


8:15pm - 10:45pm = moonshine at 100%


10:45pm - 11:00pm = ramp down from 100% to off


The daylight and moonlight periods are independent, and can be discrete or overlap depending upon your preference. You can even turn either period off if desired. In the example above, I would set the moonlight start time to be 5:30pm. This will have the moonlight at 100% at the start of the daylight ramp down from 50%, avoiding a dark period after sunset before moonrise.





In DIY mode, each of the time periods have a built in 15 minute ramp at the start, and the last time period (L8) is only a 15 minute ramp to off with an end time that is preset to just before the L1 start time.



L1 - 6:00am to 8:00am at 20% = 6:00am to 6:15am ramp from off to 20%, 6:15am to 8:00am 20%


L2 - 8:00am to 10:00am at 50% = 8:00am to 8:15am ramp from 20% to 50%, 8:15am to 10:00am 50%


...


The abrupt change I was taking about only happens between L6 (white light) and L7 (moonlight). I can only guess that since there is the color change it turns off the white light and starts ramping up the moonlight. The abrupt change could be avoided by having the L6 be 0% letting the white light ramp down to off, then the moonlight would ramp up from off, but that has the dark period that I was wanting to avoid.



I still need to experiment some more with DIY mode on the old light that is working properly. There is a chance that the malfunction on my new lights is also impacting the DIY mode. So far, I have run through several tests for Hygger customer service, but they have not been able to duplicate my issue or correct my light. They had some reports of similar issues being corrected after certain exercises, but they have not impacted my lights.





If power is removed, the operating mode and settings will be preserved, but the time will not be maintained. The light will wait for you to set the time before it does anything, much as it did from the initial power up. Unfortunately this precludes us from using an external timer.

Hygger HG-957 Light settings
 
#35 ·
I may need a new pair of glasses after this. But this is the most comprehensive Buyer Review I could find on Amazon:
We wanted to have multiple on / off periods throughout the day, so DIY mode is the obvious choice for us. Getting this set up was rather frustrating.

But first, the summary:
This light will always be fully off when first plugged in or power is restored. After power on, you must set the time before doing anything useful, but program settings are retained. So you can't use this on an external timer.
24 hour mode is not too complicated to set up and use. DIY mode is a bit more trouble to set up if done right, but very troublesome if you make the mistakes documented below.
Manually turning on and off the light takes a lot of button mashing. After using manual mode and restoring to automatic mode, the light setting appears to be reversed from what it should be; just wait 15 minutes for it to "fade-in" to the correct on/off state.

Here is what the instructions don't say:
1. Standard mode will override DIY mode, turn standard mode off (both Day-L and Moon to off) before enabling DIY mode. If DIY mode is already on, you must turn DIY mode off first before you can turn off standard mode, then you can turn DIY mode back on.
2. If you manually turn the light on, or off, or on then off, many times the light will not turn on automatically (or off as the case may be) when the next DIY phase starts. If you adjust the time (you can even set it back to the same time), when the time setting is saved it will reset the light setting to the current DIY phase (after a 15 minute fade-in, see below). Changing the DIY settings has the same effect as changing the clock settings.
3. When lights turn on and off in DIY mode, it does so gradually over a 15 minute period. Nothing wrong with this, just not mentioned in the manual.
4. Manually turning the lights on and off takes several button presses, even though I only ever want 100% full on or full off.

Here are my DIY mode instructions. The individual mode instructions are no different from what is in the manual; they are just in the right sequence here to set things up for DIY mode.
Buttons: Set, Up, Down, Bulb
Turn off standard mode first. You only have to do this once, or after a factory reset.
First turn off DIY mode if it is already enabled: long press Set and Bulb until "ON" or "OFF" appears. If "ON", press "Up" and it will change to "OFF". You can then button mash "Set" through all the DIY settings, or just wait for it to time out. Now the display will show "Day-L ON Moon ON". This is the standard mode setting. If both say "OFF", standard mode is already off, you can turn DIY mode back on and ignore this section.
To turn off standard mode: press "Set", Day-L will flash. Long press "Set", then use "Up" to change "ON" to "OFF". Long press "Set" again, and "Up" to change the Moon setting to "OFF". If the display says "Day-L OFF Moon OFF", standard mode is turned off.

Set up DIY mode: long press "Set" and "Bulb" simultaneously until "OFF" (or ON) appears. Use "Up" to change to "ON" (unless it was already ON). Sometimes I have to repeat this sequence in order to get ON/OFF to appear, or it would disappear as soon as I press "Up". Just try again. Once set to ON, use "Set" to cycle through the settings for each phase (L1, L2, ...). First setting for each phase is the light intensity, then start time for phase (for L1 only, as for the other phases the start time is the previous phase end time), and then end time. If intensity is set to 0, then the lights will be off for that phase. L7 and L8 are blue light, all the others are white.

To manually turn the light on, press "Bulb", then press "Up" several times (it always starts at 10% for me, and I can't even tell what color it is), then press "Bulb" a zillion times to get the color you want. I want white, and it comes on as red. To re-enable DIY mode, set the time (long press "Set" until hour blinks, then press "Set" 3 more times). If the light should currently be on for DIY mode, it will appear to turn off (actually it is on the lowest light brightness) and then gradually turn to the programmed brightness over the next 15 minutes. Or if the light should be off, it will immediately go to full brightness, then dim to off over the next 15 minutes. So you think it is doing opposite what it should, but 15 minutes later you see it actually did the right thing.

I am happy with the amount of light this delivers, about 70% of the brightness of the well know best in class light at one third the cost. But the DIY mode and manual programming are a pain. Personally I would prefer a simpler light used with an external timer, but you may like the automatic settings this light offers.

Edited to update instructions for resuming DIY mode.
Read less
My take: It sounds possible to program a siesta period just using the hygger 957 built-in timer. But it would drive my nuts trying to do it. So, don't take this as a recommendation.
 
#36 ·
I may need a new pair of glasses after this. But this is the most comprehensive Buyer Review I could find on Amazon:


My take: It sounds possible to program a siesta period just using the hygger 957 built-in timer. But it would drive my nuts trying to do it. So, don't take this as a recommendation.
Wow thanks for finding that!
Also despite the Hygger being a nice price and a great color spectrum for the price I really really really do not think i want to deal that complicated of a setup. Omg i got a headache just reading that.
 
#38 ·
I am almost debating doing that lol. I already have a external timer (Kasa) that came as a two pack for my betta tank light. I can set on off and siesta.
I am totally on the fence about sumrise/sunset functions. Do the plants care? Not really. Fish.... not so sure about that. Probably depends on the fish. I am now considering either the b.spot sunfish or the apisto. macmasteri for my tank.

Most of the programmable setups are terrible on the lights. The sheer insanity of the hyggar makes it a no go.

I need the light to have adequate PAR for the ~ 21-22 in depth, have enough projection to account for the variable width my tank, have durability and water proofing, have a good color spectrum finally.

The options on the market currently are mind boggling. It is hard to tell which functions have been added to light for the actual benefit of the fish and plants or just as selling points for the buyer, or even geared solely to "high tech" carefully controlled setups.

So i am going to go back to basics and focus on par, color spectrum, durability. Everything else with hopefully follow.
 
#45 ·
I figured, but of course you read posts and blogs from people who write 3 pages about how abrupt light changes have given fish heart attacks and cause stress........
Either way most lights these days come with options so why not use it lol

I am leaning towards Nicrew because out of all the lighting companies I have messaged they ACTUALLY RESPONDED OMG!!!! 😂

Now I just have to figure out which one fits best. I have been bouncing between the C10, SkyLED and have still been keeping the Pronoro on the back burner as as a option.
I know the Sky is not necessarily waterproof but is a stronger light overall. Depth to substrate for me will be approx 18"-20" deep depending on light bracket height. I want to have adiquate light levels at that depth.
 
#48 ·
Gonna bite the bullet and order the Nicrew SkyLED plus. Based on the PAR readings I have dug up I think the Sky will better handle the "complexities" of a bowfront. The widest point of the bow is 14" then tapers to 10" on the ends. The 36" is also a deeper tank. I dont remember the bracket height for the Sky but depth from light to substrate could range from 18"-20".
This was all before I spent two hours researching how hoods effect light values....... another mind boggling read that basically sums up to it does but not as much as you think as to negate the proactive advantages of the hood. Plus I just had that hood made.... it stays lol.

So Ill order the Nicrew, the Kasa timer and begin breaking down the tank.
 
#51 ·
So I have about 14 tabs open trying to decide between the macmasteri and the sunfish.......... and at the end of the day I just cant decide.

So in my desperation i have started considering the notion of housing them together in the community tank........ I emailed Zimmermans about the idea. He just emailed me back last night here were his thoughts on stocking.

"I would go with about 10-12 of the two small sunfish and then a group of 6-8 schooling fish. This could be a native minnow species or a minnow or tetra group of a tropical variety. Could also add some algae eaters like sailfin molly or american flagfish."

So I emailed him back with the posed question. I know technically both species should be considered the "main show fish" of their own tank.
One of the main things that keeps making me lean more towards the apistos is personality. Most of my fish keeping has been with koi, goldfish and comets which are the defination of a "wet pet". I just dont how i would adjust to fish that has the possibility of but just hiding all the time.
The lepomis sunfish all have big personalities and can be as aggressive as cichlids, while the smaller Enneacanthus are peaceful, make great community fish but can be timid.

Either way I need to figure put my plan so i know if I need to throw in a heater or not with my amazon order.
 
#53 ·
Lol no. I think Zimmermans fish numbers are a bit high.

I didnt explaim that previous post very well.
My thought would be if it would work
pair of the apisto,
2 or 3 of the b.spot sunfish,
6-8 of some form of shcooling fish.

That would be my thought of a good mix. If that wont work then I will decide between the the apistos and b.spots. Possibly lean towards the apistos and get one of the larger lepomis for my pond like this guy for example
Vertebrate Fin Parrotfish Fish Marine biology

Or if I wanted i could switch gears completely and house a single one these guys Ozark Longear max size approx 6".

But if i did that I would be losing out on the community tank and the fun behaviors between the fish.

My ideal solution would be to decide which piece of furniture i can live without. Set up my old 20 gal for the b.spots, keep the apistos in the 36gal community tank and get the Ozark for my pond.
 
#55 ·
So do I lol. I am pretty sure I can live without one of the living room chairs I hate the thing anyways lol.

Anyway in my response email to Zimmerman I asked about how shy/interactive his captive breed are.

I will see how the macmasteri look at my LFS. I have high hopes as they are a fish only business and do have fish health as priority with who they get fish from.

Based on my current info and thoughts i am leaning apisto.
 
#56 · (Edited)
So basically I am going crazy and....... switching back to native fish 😂😂😅. Im sure anyone reading this wants me to make up my damn mind already lol.

I just need to not get distracted cough@johnwesley0cough*apistos*cough.
So new goal decide between these two stocking ideas.

Stocking Option #1
3-4 Bluespotted Sunfish
3-4 Blackbanded Sunfish
8 Undecided schooling/shoaling fish something colorful & social.

(Sailfian mollies or flag fish also told are options heater?
This would be a full community tank. The b.banded are more outgoing then the b.spots. I dont think either will be the "wet pet" bit they also wont hide 70% of the time.

Stocking Option #2
1 Ozark Longear Sunfish
Group of schooling/shoaling fish.

This is based off info on Zimmermans facebook page and i have emailed him again to verify. According to what I have red they are more peaceful species in the lepomis family along with the dollar, orange spot, notrhern and bantamn. This would fit more of the big personality fish i am familiar with. Slightly less interesting community combo then first idea.
So.............down the rabbit hole i go. Through this entire insane process of me choosing fish my solution has been "rearrange entire house make room for more tanks" the response from family members has been "eviction"

Anyway this will save me $20 on heater. I will have $38 to use at my LFS for hardscape, schooling fish (if i dont order those from Zimmermans) and possibly a sand subatrate? Have to check if sunfish like gravel or sand.
 
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