[iris600]

ADMIN NOTES This thread was originally in a sponsors forum and when started there made sense. It has since morphed from what may have been one specific sponsors policy to a discussion on a manufactures practices with multiple sponsors involved. No longer being sponsor specific it has been moved to a more appropriate area.

I am having problems getting the JBJ regulator to seal. I wrote a thread about it in the equipment forum. I have tried using the washer included with the regulator, and went out and got a different washer from my CO2 supplier (I had just bought a tank for this reg, hence the delay in set-up).. I even tried using some of the special tape for screw ons, no luck. Still hissing at me. The regulator is plugged in when I am doing this.
I am going to give it one last try, by taking down to my CO2 supplier, but if it is faulty... where do I go from here?

 

[guppy]

Im sorry about that. I just set mine up yesterday and its doing great. I believe you go to JBJ and get a replacement from them.

 

[gnatster]

Iris, you may have better success contacting the vendor directly then posting to this forum.

 

[opiesilver]

Sorry I missed this thread.

JBJ requires all of their distributors to send warranty issues to them. They used to let us handle everything but they had too much inventory in-transit to dealers and distributors. It was tying up tons of their cash.

You can contact JBJ by going to their website at http://www.jbjlighting.com/warranty.html or email them at [email protected] or calling them at (310) 672-4021 or (310) 672-4099 between 9:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. Pacific Standard Time.

 

[gnatster]

Is that your policy on all items? I'm looking for some odds and ends, a controller and a reactor (I ended up buying the nano from another place since you didn't have them in stock yet when I was ready to buy, sorry), but it concerns me now that I might get something that was defective and end up being heaved off on the manufacturer and of course have to pay to return it to them. That really doesn't sound like very good service.

Just to interject. Some manufactures require that any warranty service is handled through the manufacturer directly. These polices are put in place by the manufacturing company, not by the individual dealers. I know first hand this is frustrating. My day job is tech support for Apple iBooks and Powerbooks and Apple has the same policy. No matter where you buy computer if there is a problem we want it back to fix it. Walk into (insert big box store here) and buy a $3000 Powerbook, take it home, open the box and it's DOA. Turn right around and go to sellers location to get it fixed. They will say, sorry, please call Apple support at xxx-xxx-xxxx. Is that right? Does that put a bad light on the seller? The bottom line is the policy at Apple is we want it back to make right. There are exceptions to every rule, and some sellers on a case by case basis may just swap it out for a another.

JBJ and others are also moving towards that same model, I have no idea why, it frustrates customers and makes the seller look like they are making the bucks and passing you off. Thats not the case. The seller is only fulfilling the policy of the manufactuer.

Bottom line is the seller is caught between the manufacturer's policy and the buyers idea of good business practices.

 

[pineapple]

Gnat is right. But a side effect to the benefit of some manufacturer/distributors is that they can conceal quality control problems. I personally believe the number of faulty JBJ regulators is at an unacceptably high level. But it would be impossible to get try figures for that without forcing the issue in a court.

Andrew Cribb

 

[gnatster]

Looking at the JBJ warrenty one sees this text

...JBJ aquarium products are warranted to the original purchaser against defective material and workmanship...

I order a JBJ item from an APC Sponsor, upon reciept I open the well packed box and see the glass is cracked. My first instinct is to contact the seller, thats natural, how ever the seller informs me that JBJ requires I deal directly with JBJ. This is obviously defective material. Due to JBJ's policy that is my only recourse.

or..

At lfs I purchase a JBJ item. As is MY routine I open the box to be sure all parts are there and notice the cracked glass. At this point I'd pack the item back up, take another from the shelf, check it for defects, and inform the lfs staff of the broken item. Since I have yet to purchase the item the onus is now on the lfs for the defective part.

However I really do think it is a bit much to ask vendors to open and test if possible all boxes before shipping.

JBJ futher states on their site

Upon discovery of a defect, the merchandise should be sent prepaid to:...

They are not hiding the fact that they handle these issues in house.

It's not the way I like business to be handled, it offends my sensibilities as both a consumer and an ex-business owner. You paid your money to me, I'll make it right. I also notice none of the mega-vendors, Big Al's, PetSolutions, Dr Foster & Smith carry JBJ regulators. Wonder why.

 

[pineapple]

On the other hand:

- buy JBJ regulator from on-line vendor USD90 approx. September 2004
- installed correctly September 2004
- regulator body starts leaking gas - complete failure of regulator - December 2004
- speak to vendor by email and advised to return to JBJ/Transworld
- call JBJ/Transworld and verify their address
- send JBJ regulator carefully packaged and padded in a NEW 15x12x10 shipping carton via UPS ground at my expense, insured, with a respectful cover letter
- UPS deliver and get Transworld's signature
- no word.... remind Transworld and vendor, vendor reminds Transworld.... in the meantime, USD90 + UPS charges held in hostage. Tank goes to hell. End up buying another regulator, an Azoo, another USD80 or so.
- no word, reminder to Transworld and vendor
- no word, formal complaint lodged with the Better Business Bureau.
- February 16, 2005: Transworld return via UPS - in a shoddy carton very poorly packed a "replacement" regulator. Looking at it, I think it is a renovated regulator. I have photos of the packaging.

That is service? Forget it. If you buy a JBJ regulator, you can possibly look forward to this type of warranty service.

Andrew Cribb

 

[opiesilver]

Not only that guys but if we take an exchange we can't even get it fixed so now we are out not only shipping costs, labor and parts, but the $90 for the new door stop we would have in our hands. Several of the regulator/lights/filter companies have taken this approach now.

 

[opiesilver]

Kretinus, thanks for the update. I'll be talking to JBJ Monday morning to see what the deal is with what we have been told.

 

[gnatster]

I dread the day we start seeing ADA knock offs flood the market.

Amano Type CO2 Regulator

Their discription, not mine

 

[pineapple]

I wonder if the bottle they are selling is akin to or identical to a paintball CO2 bottle?

Andrew Cribb

 

[dennis]

Not to get off topic but to respond to Andrews post.... I was at he paintball store the other day and asked about regulating small tanks for our use. The guy told me to get a regulator from HomeDepot and a fitting to go from the paintball tank to the regulator. $30-40 for each part, less if you can find the fitting somewhere other than a painball store. So for no more than 80$ you can use a painball tank. The tanks run from 30-50$, less used. You can also get a valve, like on your prss tank now, with a shut off valve and the regular CO2 class fitting, like all the normal regulators for hte hobby use, they can swap this valve for the fitting on the small tank for free and the valve is $30. Not as small and attractive as the AMano/AMano type regulators but if its in a cabinet......

Sorry to be off topic but thought that needed sharing

 

[opiesilver]

If you have ever looked at the European CO2 setups they almost all use the small paintball sized tanks. I would only be concerned at the cost of having to refill such a small tank every few months. I haven't had to refill my 10lbs tank in two years that I have on my 125g.

 

[Laith]

...JBJ requires all of their distributors to send warranty issues to them. They used to let us handle everything but they had too much inventory in-transit to dealers and distributors. It was tying up tons of their cash.

Sounds like JBJ takes people for fools. If I understand this correctly, JBJ had too much inventory in-transit because they had to replace so many defective regulators? :-s

So, because they can't make/source a decent regulator, they decide to make it much more difficult (and expensive with the shipping cost) for their customers to get what they originally paid for? Because they had to replace so many?? :axe:

Sorry, but this is ridiculous. Fix the regulator problem people and the whole issue goes away... where did they get their management team from? :razz:

 

[kretinus]

If I were a JBJ dealer, I would be concerned about them disclosing that defect rates are causing cash flow problems.

 

[opiesilver]

There was a point in time, not so long ago, that we stopped carrying the JBJ regulators. But because of popular demand we started selling them again. You would believe how many people will only buy the JBJ because of the built in check valve.

I like the Milwaukee regulator better, but right now they seem to be having a supply issue. We are not taking orders for them right now because we don't know when the next shipment will get to us.

 

[fishyface]

If I were a JBJ dealer, I would be concerned about them disclosing that defect rates are causing cash flow problems.

would someone please gimme some insight into what the deal is with JBJ regs? what sort of defects etc.?

 

[gnatster]

Let me emphasise here that if you already have a JBJ regulator and it is working fine, don't worry, be happy. Go trim a plant However, if I was in the market for a regulator at this current point in time (March 05) and I happened upon these posts then I would cross JBJ off my short list and look else-ware. In the normal course of business events many times when the people cry loud enough management will look at the process in place and hopefully find the issue(s). I think we we can safely use the fact Robert has chosen not to stock certain items in the current JBJ line as a warning that they currently do not meet the quality that we all seek. I'm sure he does not need the hassles and people raking him through the mud from the possible issues when a product that Robert as Aqua Botanic represent has a perceived turn for the worse in quality.

 

[opiesilver]

So what are you saying kretinus? It's starting to sound as if you have some other motives here that you haven't laid on the table yet.