Aquatic Plant Forum banner
21 - 40 of 67 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
373 Posts
I am using a similar method to the siesta regime, basically after reading previous posts where DWalstad mentioned her siesta period. This one thread is very helpful for showing some "support" of what she had been stating earlier...

Sunlight reaches my tank in the morning (9am - 11 am) and then some more again in the afternoon (2pm - 5pm). Lights come on at (6pm - 10pm) but the tank is pretty dark from 5-6pm. So in total i have a partial siesta at around noon and a darker siesta at 5pm... it has worked pretty well, as when i had the lights on earlier i got lots of algae and much warmer temperatures.

I'm sure this method works even for high tech, though perhaps some folks may not even care to have a healthy regimen, or a more conservative approach to replenish Co2.... but definitely the fish and plants wont mind having a siesta period, on the contrary, real tropical ecosystems get shading... they even have siesta days.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
2,786 Posts
Discussion Starter · #23 ·
I was wondering if you had tested other nap regimens? Would be even better to have shorter, more frequent siestas in order to provide higher and more consistent CO2 levels throughout the day? This seems very natural and "cloud like". Or is there some advantage to allowing the CO2 to drop that far?
I did not test other nap regimens. I honestly believe that there's not too much to gain with minor changes. Plus, they're impractical for most people (e.g., my timers only allow one Siesta).

More importantly, CO2 is constantly being generated during that 5 hr. That's why the CO2 doesn't ever go to zero. In the graph (see below), you'll see that the lowest CO2 readings are still at 2-3 mg/l. [Without the 4 hr nap, CO2 did go to absolute zero in some of my tanks after 8 hr light.]

Let us not forget the bacteria. Plant photosynthesis oxygenates the tank; this increased oxygen immediately stimulates bacterial metabolism, and in turn, produces more CO2. That's why there's such a sharp rebound in CO2 during the Siesta. The plants may be napping, but the bacteria are cranked up by a morning "oxygen high".

Because of stimulated bacterial activity, plants are getting much more CO2 than just the 5 mg/l CO2 they started out with at dawn.

As to Crispino's question: What is El Natural?

El Natural is keeping tanks with the principles discussed in my book Ecology of the Planted Aquarium: a soil underlayer, moderately hard water, adequate lighting, and a wide variety of plant species.

NPTs (Natural Planted Tanks) based on El Natural principles do not get CO2 injection so conserving CO2 is important. The Siesta Regimen is a very cool way to provide plants with more CO2 during the day. The Siesta Regimen probably won't help folks that are injecting their tanks with CO2, since these plants are "awash" in CO2 all day long.

This forum is mainly for those interested in NPTs and natural systems.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
I did not test other nap regimens. I honestly believe that there's not too much to gain with minor changes. Plus, they're impractical for most people (e.g., my timers only allow one Siesta).
I recently bought a new timer and found that it was a great improvement over my older ones. It's more compact and the pins are permanently attached. You can easily set half-hour intervals throughout the day. I liked the new one so much I ended up replacing all of my older timers!

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Using a timer like this, it would be easy do something like 1.5 hr on/.5 off intervals to smooth out the CO2 level.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
145 Posts
I recently bought a new timer and found that it was a great improvement over my older ones. It's more compact and the pins are permanently attached. You can easily set half-hour intervals throughout the day. I liked the new one so much I ended up replacing all of my older timers!

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Using a timer like this, it would be easy do something like 1.5 hr on/.5 off intervals to smooth out the CO2 level.
These are the timers I use all over my house, for all my tanks and my xmas lights. $4 at Walmart also. Recently I've found 3 prong ones...great timers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
596 Posts
I recently bought a new timer and found that it was a great improvement over my older ones. It's more compact and the pins are permanently attached. You can easily set half-hour intervals throughout the day. I liked the new one so much I ended up replacing all of my older timers!

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Using a timer like this, it would be easy do something like 1.5 hr on/.5 off intervals to smooth out the CO2 level.
It doesn't mention having a third prong for ground. If not, it isn' safe for most aquarium lights. Walmart has a timer with a third prong ground for about the same price. They are where the christmas lights are this time of year.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
145 Posts
It doesn't mention having a third prong for ground. If not, it isn' safe for most aquarium lights. Walmart has a timer with a third prong ground for about the same price. They are where the christmas lights are this time of year.
You can buy a plug that converts from a 3 prong to 2 prong, I've used them for years before the timers were available in 3 plug, with no issues.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,406 Posts
You can buy a plug that converts from a 3 prong to 2 prong, I've used them for years before the timers were available in 3 plug, with no issues.
The third prong is a grounder prong. It connects the device plugged into the timer to the ground attached to the house. A ground prevents electrical shorts by sending the electricity produced during a short down the cable into the ground outside the house. Without a ground, if something were to go wrong and there was no ground then the electricity looks for the shortest path from the device to the earth, which usually turns out to be a person's body who is doing fish tank maintenance resulting in electrocution or fire. A ground is definitely recommended for safety, but as you said devices will work without them... its just not safe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
476 Posts
Without a ground, if something were to go wrong and there was no ground then the electricity looks for the shortest path from the device to the earth, which usually turns out to be a person's body who is doing fish tank maintenance resulting in electrocution or fire.
A minor contribution: The above is definitely true. It is also true that especially for those without grounded lamps, a *very* good thing to have is a GFCI/RCD breaker, powerstrip or outlet -- for two-pronged lights they will also protect a person from electrocution. In fact, I'd say its a necessity in any case -- grounded lamps or not, small tank or large. Kind of like an airbag or ABS brakes -- now that they're available, it's sensible to have them.

I happen to use those little timers, and they are very good, inexpensive and flexible. The extra $ went to a GFCI wall outlet.

-ObiQuiet
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
145 Posts
The third prong is a grounder prong. It connects the device plugged into the timer to the ground attached to the house. A ground prevents electrical shorts by sending the electricity produced during a short down the cable into the ground outside the house. Without a ground, if something were to go wrong and there was no ground then the electricity looks for the shortest path from the device to the earth, which usually turns out to be a person's body who is doing fish tank maintenance resulting in electrocution or fire. A ground is definitely recommended for safety, but as you said devices will work without them... its just not safe.
Right, but the converter has a ground, on the bottom, it's metal and sticks out right below where the third prong is. It is safe if you buy the correct converter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
596 Posts
Right, but the converter has a ground, on the bottom, it's metal and sticks out right below where the third prong is. It is safe if you buy the correct converter.
Unless it connects to a ground in the circuit or a cold water pipe, that adapter is bypassing the safety of a third wire ground. Without an efficient third wire ground and if you touch something hot via skin or water, you effectively complete the circuit and that's the part that hurts. I would imagine you aren't using a GFCI outlet as well. I typical circuit breaker for a wall outlet circuit is usually 15 amps, that amount is very dangerous for you. It only takes .5 amps to stop your heart.

For your safety, use three pronged cords, outlets and timers and a GFCI. I three prong timer costs $6.00 at walmart. Even if it cost ten times that amount, I'll bet its still cheaper than your insurance deductable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
145 Posts
Unless it connects to a ground in the circuit or a cold water pipe, that adapter is bypassing the safety of a third wire ground. Without an efficient third wire ground and if you touch something hot via skin or water, you effectively complete the circuit and that's the part that hurts. I would imagine you aren't using a GFCI outlet as well. I typical circuit breaker for a wall outlet circuit is usually 15 amps, that amount is very dangerous for you. It only takes .5 amps to stop your heart.

For your safety, use three pronged cords, outlets and timers and a GFCI. I three prong timer costs $6.00 at walmart. Even if it cost ten times that amount, I'll bet its still cheaper than your insurance deductable.
Hmmmm, not the way I understood it. Not saying that's not true, just saying I have different understanding of the way the converters work. I do have GFCI outlets on 2 of my tanks, left over from my reef days, actually need to get a third one for a 29g I just set up. Never think of it when I'm at Home Depot, this conversation just might make me remember....;)....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
596 Posts
Right, but the converter has a ground, on the bottom, it's metal and sticks out right below where the third prong is. It is safe if you buy the correct converter.
What is that metal connected to? Not trying to be difficult, just trying to convince you to set it up in a safe way. I've been working with electricity since 1980 and have had first hand experience with shocks. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
44 Posts
Hi,
The "Siesta Period", photo period has been around for decades. Last time I read about it was in Encyclopedia of Aquarium Plants. (2003)Can't remember the first time.
My last attempt was the 4-4-4 version. (For algae control)

I tried to match the automated Co2 to the lights (on prior-off early X 2). I was told this kept the Ph fluctuating, and the dynamics of this was detrimental to the health of the Discus.

Although initially, this strategy seemed to limit algae growth, there still was algae. After months, I decided, this was not really natural, and did not address my algae issue enough to continue.

However, I try and keep my mind open to others' experiences, and will follow this thread.

:popcorn:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,173 Posts
Diana,

Do you have replicate measurements or just the data set you presented? I'm really interested in seeing what the standard deviation is on these levels. Have you tried external CO2 supplimentation during the low hours?

The one thing I've always had trouble with concerning NPT or El Natural aquaria is the lack of CO2 input relative to the volume of plants in the tank. ie, a pond or lake has a much larger input of CO2 enriched ground water and other sources of biogenic dissolved organic and inorganic carbon relative to the amount of higher plants than an enclosed glass box.

Have you ever experimented with maintaining high X-Carbonate levels in one of your tanks? I'm thinking of rivers in karst regions that originate from springs supersaturated with CO2 and carbonate molecules such as the San Marcos in TX and many rivers in Florida. They seem very productive and "clean" even in high PAR regions.

I haven't had the facilities to do experiments like this on my own and am curious to know if you have.

Regards,
Phil
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
189 Posts
Right, but the converter has a ground, on the bottom, it's metal and sticks out right below where the third prong is. It is safe if you buy the correct converter.
I guess this is the converter you're talking about?



If so, it only works to preserve the chassis grounding if the terminal ring is screwed down beneath the outlet box cover. Otherwise the grounding is lost. Manufacturers who include three-pronged plugs do so to satisfy UL safety requirements. These requirements are not oppressive and you bypass them at significant risk.

That said, theoretically you could jump the ground to the white/neutral wire and maintain ground since they both end up clamped to the same bus in the service panel, but that would absolutely necessitate all electricians wire outlet boxes correctly. Otherwise almost certain electrocution would result. Since electricians do make mistakes, electrical inspectors don't test every outlet, and GFCIs won't work unless the outlets are properly wired, everyone serious about safety should buy one of these outlet testers:



Then get a plug-in GFCI to protect every aquarium circuit you have if the circuit isn't already protected. It's a small price to pay for what you get in return.

Hope this is helpful,
Jim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
596 Posts
I guess this is the converter you're talking about?



If so, it only works to preserve the chassis grounding if the terminal ring is screwed down beneath the outlet box cover. Otherwise the grounding is lost. Manufacturers who include three-pronged plugs do so to satisfy UL safety requirements. These requirements are not oppressive and you bypass them at significant risk.

That said, theoretically you could jump the ground to the white/neutral wire and maintain ground since they both end up clamped to the same bus in the service panel, but that would absolutely necessitate all electricians wire outlet boxes correctly. Otherwise almost certain electrocution would result. Since electricians do make mistakes, electrical inspectors don't test every outlet, and GFCIs won't work unless the outlets are properly wired, everyone serious about safety should buy one of these outlet testers:



Then get a plug-in GFCI to protect every aquarium circuit you have if the circuit isn't already protected. It's a small price to pay for what you get in return.

Hope this is helpful,
Jim
Good one Dustymac!
 
21 - 40 of 67 Posts
Top