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My apologies to Ms. Walstad and everyone for adding posts that were off topic but, I thought it important to continue due to a safety issue. Since Dustymac finished up the point rather well, I will not continue adding off topic posts here.

Again, my apologies!
 

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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
My apologies to Ms. Walstad and everyone for adding posts that were off topic but, I thought it important to continue due to a safety issue. QUOTE]

I appreciate what you have written. I agree with you that discussing electrical safety is very important.

Thus, I have started a new thread with an appropriate title (e.g., "Safe Electrical Wiring").

Folks, let's try to stay organized!
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
Diana,
Do you have replicate measurements or just the data set you presented? I'm really interested in seeing what the standard deviation is on these levels.
Regards, Phil
I have replicate measurements on my 50 gal without the Siesta. They were done on 3 different days, but results look almost identical. Rapid CO2 uptake in the morning and then it slows down and levels off in the afternoon and evening.

I showed you all a single Siesta measurement on this same tank-- my 50 gal Rainbowfish tank. It is totally different than measurements without the Siesta. I did Siesta measurements on 3 other tanks that day. Same pattern that I showed you all in the graph.

The full data will be published in The Aquatic Gardener early next year. It will explain how I did the measurements, show measurements on other tanks, and have a full discussion. For those who are interested, you can purchase sample copies of The Aquatic Gardener for $6.

Also, the Siesta Regimen was suggested to me by CS-Gardener in this forum. I don't know where he/she got the idea, but I surely like it.

Finally, the Siesta Regimen is mainly for submerged plants and NPTs, not High-tech tanks or tanks with emergent plants.
 

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I have not yet implemented Siesta on my CO2 injected tank, but plan to do so.

I dont use a controller. My CO2 is injected at a constant rate, 24/7. I only casually monitor CO2 with pH measurements, primarily to set the "bubble rate". My pH drops at night and then rises during the day as plants are consuming CO2 faster than it is supplied. This corresponds to a diurnal cycle somewhat analagous to what Diana describes, but obviously at a higher level. Unfortunately, i dont have hard data to share.

What i expect to happen with implementation of siesta for this CO2 injected situation is an increase in CO2 levels during the that period. When the lights come back on, the plants should be happy, maybe even pearl. Only "negative" that i can think about is possible change in morphology. Some plants like Echinodorus change the shape of their leaves between short day and long day conditions. It could also affect the behavior of the fish, but can imagine some positive changes and possible breeding that come with longer-day conditions.

Are there any negatives that people can hypothesize or report regarding siesta with enhanced CO2 input?

Regarding history of siesta, I first learned about it from the 1993 Dennerle Nature Aquaristic "System for a problem free aquarium."

Sorry for merging an NPT and non-NPT discussion. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
Are there any negatives that people can hypothesize or report regarding siesta with enhanced CO2 input?

Regarding history of siesta, I first learned about it from the 1993 Dennerle Nature Aquaristic "System for a problem free aquarium."
I can't imagine any negatives. If there are problems, I hope that you'll let us all know. ;)

Interesting that Dennerle mentioned the Siesta method. I don't have his book. Would you please tell us what he wrote? Daylength, length of siesta, how it helped, etc?

Thanks!
 

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Just FYI I tried the siesta while out of town for 8 days. I noticed much better (quite impressive, especially Rotala rotundifolia and Nymphoides sp. Taiwan) growth in just this short time compared to growth rates over the past few weeks, so evidently the plants were happy with the nap-added CO2 kick. On the down side, my water is tinted green again, which means the water algae was also appreciative. I'll lift the lights a few inches and do a couple 10% water changes and see what happens.
 

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On the down side, my water is tinted green again, which means the water algae was also appreciative. I'll lift the lights a few inches and do a couple 10% water changes and see what happens.
Hey Boots,
Just for kicks, who was feeding your fish while you were gone? The reason I ask is my experience shows a direct relationship between algae growth and nutrient input. In my case, after 10 days since adopting the siesta method, the algae situation is apparently the same.

Jim
 

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correct me if I'm wrong, but your lights are either on or off, there is no middle ground?
Last time I checked, you're absolutely right! ;)

BTW, one of my tanks gets sunlight and it's interesting to see the fauna and flora during the siesta period. From what I can tell, it's business as usual for the fish and snails.
 

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Hey Boots,
Just for kicks, who was feeding your fish while you were gone? The reason I ask is my experience shows a direct relationship between algae growth and nutrient input. In my case, after 10 days since adopting the siesta method, the algae situation is apparently the same.

Jim
Hey Jim,

I kind of over-fed before we left and let them "fast" while we were away. One problem is that I feed too much. Not on purpose of course, but after seeing how healthy the fish were upon returning home they obviously don't need as much as I have been giving them. It looks like a change in nutrient inputs will be in the plan with raising the lights a little, along with lots of patience...:(

Darren
 

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On the plus side, one of my Anubias has sent up a floral bud and 4 of my 12 Apistogramma macmasteris have paired off and spawned (after only a month in the tank). I guess the lighting just set the mood...
 

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Great topic. I apologize if this question is not in the correct thread. I am pretty sure after reading Ms. Walstad's posts and everything about El Natural that is what I am going to do. My question is on lighting. I have a 55 gallon tank and I am thinking about doing a 2 bulb 48" fixture using 1-40 watt Sylvania Gro Lux and 1-40 watt Sylvania Gro Lux Wide Spectrum bulb, both T-12 bulbs. The combo of the two is great for plant growing as you will read from Newt here in these forums. Would that be a decent lighting set up for an El Natural?
 

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Great topic. I apologize if this question is not in the correct thread. I am pretty sure after reading Ms. Walstad's posts and everything about El Natural that is what I am going to do. My question is on lighting. I have a 55 gallon tank and I am thinking about doing a 2 bulb 48" fixture using 1-40 watt Sylvania Gro Lux and 1-40 watt Sylvania Gro Lux Wide Spectrum bulb, both T-12 bulbs. The combo of the two is great for plant growing as you will read from Newt here in these forums. Would that be a decent lighting set up for an El Natural?
That seems pretty close to just-right, and maybe have a little bit of window light available just in case. I almost would say just a touch more lighting would be good, but davemonkey (one of the moderators here at APC) is also experimenting with El Natural in a 55 and seems to be a little on the high side. With a few more watts than what you've got he's got some green water causing headaches...you might shoot him a PM. Also, I forget what type of lights Diana Walstad is using, but she may have some experience with T12 or know someone who does who can give you some first-hand information on them and their efficiency.
 

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I have several tanks with 4' long fluorescent lights.
(2) 40 watt T-12 over a 55 is not really very much light. With REALLY GREAT reflectors you might be OK, or with a good window exposure to add to the light this might work. I have a few tanks like this, but they are only 45 gallons, (4' long, and vary, but are about a foot wide and a little over a foot tall; 15-16" mostly) and (2) T-12s + sunlight work on these tanks, but only for low light plants.

I also have a few of my 4' long tanks with hardware fixture with (2) T-8 bulbs and some T-12s. Mostly these are taller and wider tanks, so the wpg still come out about the same as the above described 45 gallons, but I think the T-8s are more efficient bulbs, and I can grow some plants in these tanks that do not grow in what seems to be the same wpg but just from T-12 bulbs.

Mixing up the bulb type seems a good idea, I certainly do that. Of course this means even less watts of any one wavelength, so might really mean there is less light that even the package label says, when you look at it from the plants' point of view.

I am running these tank for me to look at, too, though, and the mixed wavelengths result in aquariums that look natural to me, and are colorful, without the fish or plants looking 'weird' because of specialty bulbs that are very restricted wavelengths.
 

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Excellent! Thanks Diana. I'm not so sure about the algae benefits since there are lots of species which grow even in low light. And if algae grow utilizing less CO2, if your tank gets direct or indirect sunlight, won't the algae keep growing during the siesta while the plants are dormant?

Jim
Any feedback on this interesting point?

Thanks.
 

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Any feedback on this interesting point?

Thanks.
I like Jim's question as well. I can say this though; I know of 3 people now using the siesta and none of them have algae problems. I'd say 4, but I'm the 4th, and I ALWAYS have algae problems. I'm not sure why I insist on learning things the hard way or ignoring others who warn me, but that's just the way it goes I guess. Anyway, I hope I'm on the track to being the 4th person I know who uses a siesta and has no algae issues, which so far means reducing the solar flare lighting to something a little more accurate for what I need.
 
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