[ashappard]

whats your GH?
sometimes I deal with L.aromatica that won't color up by upping GH and micros after a big water change. Unless there are sp. in the tank that dont like quick changes to parms. I try not to mix picky stems with weedy ones for that reason.

I'll agree that L.aromatica is variable in color, but I'll also say it is very pliable.

 

[ashappard]

when the weather breaks (freakin cold this week)
would you be willing to send me a few of the green stems and I can try to color them up?
I could post pics / parms / regime / handle shipping and stem costs etc.

as an experiment. I think I can coax color out of it.

 

[ashappard]

I would be more then happy to. What are you tank params/specs?

soft water and regular water changes are the only constant. Otherwise, macros and micros based on sp. mix. my regimes are more about how much fertilization I add and when I change water, so its EI method. I add CO2 by misting.

I'm a fan of UV and excel in growout tanks. Sorry I don't have or use test kits. I'm pretty good at tracking observations and actions though, and I see more value there. I do have a TDS meter and can measure temp. That's about as scientific as I can get right now.

I get with you by PM we can arrange a few stems of the green Limnophila to test with. I think it'll be fun and hopefully useful.

 

[ashappard]

I'm hoping I can demo this when I get some of bsmith's green L.aromatica -- I group this stem in the category that responds well to a shock, not a bad shock but a rapid change in parameters maintained for a while. I suspect that I can drop it into a tank with clear water (low TDS and no ferts) then starve it a bit. Before it suffers bring up macros / micros / GH in a planned regime. It should respond with color. We'll see. Experimentally I have done it with a few sp. and a 3rd party test subject would be cool. Hopefully I can have it remain green for a while, then purposely switch its color. None of this is earthshaking or original, I just hope to demonstrate it as a repeatable process.

to tackle this subject :

My LA is now a deep intense red and I couldn't tell you why

my LA also went completely green like yours. I can't remember the specifics of what happened...

and so forth.

 

[ashappard]

Dont you think that me having two sets of LA in the same tank one with no color and one with color kind of already prooves this unnessicary?

OR are you saying that the shock treatment is what this plant needs to get some color?

I dont think you've given them enough time. If all things stay equal, all of the stems will look the same eventually. Thats my theory.

the idea behind the drastic change in parms is to force a change in the plant's appearance. keeping the change stable is the job of the regime afterwards.

 

[ashappard]

Nice! At least there is starting to be a little rhyme or reason to this.

although I am still mildly suspicious, only because of past experience with the L.aromatica's variable nature. I'll accept the fact that there may be two variants of the plant in your tank, experimentally I'll try to verify that. Temp this am was -15F, but warming above freezing is coming next week.

what I want to compare is your green LA vs your colorful LA vs my LA in the same tank. sending a PM to work out the details.

 

[ashappard]

Plants on their way. And labeled for your convinience!

woohoo! If I fail to get the 'green' to color up, its still a win. I'll have a true green variant of LA which has eluded me so far. Maybe I'll get flowers from all three (your two, and then mine) so Cavan can have a peek.

 

[ashappard]

well, I got the stems today (thanks). You aren't joking, this stuff is green! I'll still see if I can squeeze color out of it.. All the years I've kept and traded LA, I haven't come across this one. Shows what I know.

I'll get a space cleared out for three groupings and get baseline pics posted this weekend.

 

[ashappard]

What's the word Mr.Shappard?

sorry for the delay. I've been preoccupied but I'll get some pics up this week.
so far the green LA is still green, but I haven't done much beside plant them.

it got really cold in my fishroom where I have my growout tanks,
water temps dipped into the 50s for a couple days. That's been taken care of though.
Stupid winter storms.

 

[ashappard]

is there a reddish blush under the leaves of your 'green' LA? the ones you have sent me are showing that but for the most part not colorful. And they are stunted

I'll get pics up tonite, sorry I've been slacking so much on this. I'll try to point out one main difference between yours and mine, the number of leaves per whorl. I know I've seen discussion on this in the past but cant recall where. My Limnophila aromatica has a lower number of leaves per whorl - more than Limnophila repens 'mini' but fewer than the two samples you sent me.

 

[ashappard]

didnt imply yours are stunted, just the stems in my tank from your stock.
the cold water temps made them unhappy. Oddly enough Tonina fluviatilis did not seem to mind the fishroom troubles at all.

pics tonite if it kills me.

 

[ashappard]

heres a few pics, nothing fancy but some comparisons between bsmith's and my
Limnophila aromatica. Note that the stunting and hair algae are my bad, they
arrived in good condition. Here's the dodgy part - I received 4 stems of it,
labeled green and colorful and they did differ in that way.
After some time in my tank though they look the same.
Dodgy because I dont have a series of pics showing that, which was my plan.

anyway pics :

the first two show top-down of mine vs bsmiths
note that mine appear to be 5 leaves per whorl / bsmiths are 7 or 9
( I should have counted before lights out)

this last one shows a side view.
theres a little color, but also stunting, which I'll get fixed.

I'm going to keep at these for now and let them grow out,
see what happens. I'll bug bsmith for another batch so I can document a proper
sequence as I attempt to color up the stems.

.

 

[ashappard]

I still cant see any color.

there is a bit in the third pic, on the undersides of the leaves.
not much, thats true. but I'll try to bring it out and increase leaf size.

macros are being dosed lightly now, approx 50% EI amounts for a tank this size (its a 40G cube)
temp is back up to the low 70s, water is very soft and GH booster is added to give about 4GH.
substrate is ADA aquasoil which is about 2 years old.
Plants are growing now under an aging fishneedit 150W DE 8000K bulb @8hrs/day,
which I'm going to yank and replace with a 10000K bulb - either fishneedit or coralife.

this weekend, after bulb change - I'll do a 90% water change / clean out the remnants of the hair algae then ramp up macros to about 150% typical EI to make the plants larger. Holler when you are ready for a trim and I'll buy your two types again. 4" tops would be perfect, and I'll make a proper sequence of images showing our three Limnophila aromaticas growing out.

 

[ashappard]

yeah - let me snap a couple shots this morning while the LA is curled up sleeping. easier to get the color on the undersides to show that way. back in a bit.

EDIT: back with pix

there are notes on the image to ID the variants.
you can see a bit of color on the green var. but it does
stand out easily (as less colorful) when compared to the others.

lights on is at around 4pm, I'll get some more shots later as they
open. I replaced the 8000K lamp with a 10000K lamp and
I like the appearance much better. just my eyes maybe, 8K == too green.

the hammered appearance on the leaves usually bothers me when it happens,
I'm still ramping up macros and hope it will go away once I get to a target.
It makes me think stunting when I see it, but I dont think it is - just odd growth
that I can usually get to smooth out.

speaking of odd growth, has anyone ever noticed forked leaves on this sp?
I get it infrequently, but cant find any pics to demonstrate.

 

[ashappard]

So do you still feel that you can coax color out of the less colorful var. to make it look like the others?

I dunno, but we'll see over time if they begin to change appearance.
Its possible that I'll end up with 3 Linmophila aromatica variants that are easy to tell apart.
even though I havent done a proper sequence showing green --> color (I still need to do this)
I'm pretty convinced the one Limnophila from bsmith is not a true green, at least not like
rotala sp. 'green' needleleaf and etc. where they just wont show color.

that reminds me, I was going to count leaves per whorl on all three.
This evening at lights on there will be some water changes and I'll take some more pics.
Didnt happen last night, sorry.

I'll dig out my notes and give a more accurate representation of dosing
solution mixture and how much per day of each type, rather than just saying I dose relative to
standard EI by +/- certain %

 

[ashappard]

quick update on my acquisition of another L.aromatica variant.
this one has wide green leaves, very low number of leaves per whorl.

I'll find out if it was grown submerged or emersed and put up some pics of it.
and dosing notes and the other stuff I'm slacking on..

 

[ashappard]

thats a good idea.

I'll get some more pics up this weekend to show where I am with your stems, and hopefully the results will be more solid by then. So far your 'green' variety does still have a noticeably different appearance than your 'colorful' variety.

I'll also get some pics up of the Limnophila aromatica 'broad' - its a different one for certain.
and its not L.repens 'mini', I have the two growing side by side to see differences between the two.

 

[ashappard]

yeah yeah, I did slack off bad on this.
in the end my growout was choked with LA and I couldnt tell any of the three types apart.
I think I gave away over 150 stems when I trimmed it out. nice spicy smell in my fishroom when I pulled it up.

I've got the stems of your green you recently sent, I'll clean up a nice open space and have a proper go at this. I have my LA from another tank, and I'll position the LA 'broad' in plain view with L.repens 'mini' to compare those.

I have to agree with the posters who mention high light as a contributor to this one's color - it really does make a difference. I dont like to starve macros in my tanks, but elevated PO4 in relation to NO3 can also squeeze color out of this one and some other sp. and I believe that a GH of at least 4 is needed for good stems - as far as diameter goes. cant prove that though, its just a theory or more of a guess.

 

[ashappard]

ok its been over a month and I've been doing a good job of keeping these guys separate.
there is a color difference with these, same tank placement grown side-side.

sideshoots from the original stems of bsmith's variety maintain characteristics and
grow up to look just like the mother. looks like the only way to really get to the
bottom of this is to flower both variants - mine and bsmiths and see
what differences exist there. They are on my list for this summer.

heres a couple shots. first one my LA is on the left. bsmith's on the right.
definitely a color difference, leaves mostly the same but more bumpiness to bsmith's in most cases.
I've been growing these in cramped conditions, since my main focus is to grow out other stems now.
so I dont have a picture of a stand. I suspect I may need a little stand of
both to improve my chances of flowers.

last pic shows the variety from bsmith submerged.
There is consistent color, but not as vibrant as the other type I have.

more this summer when I get some flowers.

 

[ashappard]

Limnophilia aromatica 'broad'

I mentioned a variant of L.aromatica many posts back, I received it as L.aromatica 'broad'
its different than typical aromatica in that there are fewer leaves
and they are wider. I've been growing it out for a while and have a larger
stand as I try for flowers. The color behavior is similar to typical L.aromatica
but the stem also takes on a reddish purple color.
when you crush a stem - it has that distinctive L.aromatica smell. mmm...

heres some pics
submerged:

switched to emersed:
arrows point to the stems - bacopa madagascarensis is mixed in

a comparison of the three types I am growing:
the one not labeled is the one I originally kept before getting others