Method of controlled imbalances discussion

208275 Views 477 Replies 76 Participants Last post by Eyeslikepeanuts, Mar 29, 2022

Christian_rubilar

Discussion Starter · Apr 22, 2009 (Edited by Moderator)

Well, GDA is easy to eliminate.
It's appears when there is an imbalance related to Po4 and Ca.
If Ca is high this is because you probably had added too much. 50% water change solves it. And reduced the quantity next time.
About Po4, Water change helps if the new watter hasn't Po4. Reducing the ppms you add helps a lot. I think that 0.5 is enough unless you have a lot of microsorums, marsilea crenata, etc.
This two items should be in your mind in order to avoid a new GDA problem.
Finally, to eliminate it you should use the "generic protocol of the Kno3". Stop fertilizing at all. Change 50% of the water. Add every day for 1 week 1 gram of Kno3 every 50 gallons until GSA appears. If after one week the GPA doesn't appears, then repeat it but 2 gram every 50 gallons and so on.
I know that in this forum you guys have very different ideas about how to deal with GDA. This way to solve it was sucesfully used hundred of times during the last three years.
You can find more info about this in this thread / article:
http://www.drpez.net/panel/showthread.php?t=154436
You know, when a theory doesn't work, then this theory should be abandoned.

Edit note: For full English translation, please refer to here, starting on post number 214.

421 - 440 of 478 Posts

farrenator

· #421 · Aug 3, 2011

Lookig over your specs it looks like you have a ton of light. What is your photoperiod set at? Just recently I cut my photoperiod down from 10 hours a day to 4 hours on, 1 off, 4 hours on and it helped with the GDA I was getting on the glass. From the pics you posted I see the lights are hung a decent height above the tank but it still seems like a lot of light. FYI I have 216 watts fo t5h0 over a 75 gallon at 3" above the top of the tank.

Your water specs don't seem to be too bad. When I test my water I end up with 15-20pmm Nitrate and about 0.5ppm phosphate. I would try playing around with your lighting schedule.

slobodan said:
I just did 20 gal water change and I think that mulm at the bottom is Blue/Green algae.
I did blackout for three days 3 times so far. It does disappear but comes back after couple of weeks.
I'm looking for erythromycin right now, it looks like it's only option..
I think I forgot to mention that I also have 25W UV light as well which is on 24/7.

slobodan

· #422 · Aug 5, 2011

Thanks for reply farrenator..
My lights are on and off during the day, It's like this:

Righ Light ON @ 12:00
Left Light ON @ 14:00
Left Light OFF @ 16:00
Left Light ON @ 17:55
Right Light OFF @ 18:00
Left Light OFF @ 22:00

I did try that too. About a month ago I had all lights off for a week. I didn't cover it to be pitch black but off never the less.. it subdued a bit but was back in no time..
I'm really desperate and there doesn't seem to be much help..

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slobodan

· #423 · Aug 6, 2011

I have quick question, is it possible that R/O water that went through R/O filter (of course

) with DI unit contains any kind of organic nutrients, traces, phosphates, nitrites etc. ???
When I measure TDS it's 1ppm..
I think not but want to confirm.

JeffyFunk

· #424 · Aug 6, 2011

slobodan said:
I have quick question, is it possible that R/O water that went through R/O filter (of course ) with DI unit contains any kind of organic nutrients, traces, phosphates, nitrites etc. ???
When I measure TDS it's 1ppm..
I think not but want to confirm.

RO is a proportional technique. In other words, the RO filter is only able to remove a certain proportion of the impurities in water across the RO membrane. Without a laboratory grade water purification system (which may also include a RO filter as a prepurification step), you will never achieve ASTM Type 1 water.

Furthermore, you have to be careful about low level TDS analysis. Unless you have a TDS Meter with a low level conductivity probe, I would take low level conductivity measurements w/ a grain of salt. Bottom line - w/out laboratory grade equipment, don't expect laboratory grade water (and you really don't have any need for home use).

slobodan

· #425 · Aug 6, 2011

Thanks JeffyFunk..
I understand that. I was just trying to get my head around how to get rid of this blue/green algae and was wondering may be it's my water which is 100% R/O..

farrenator

· #426 · Aug 8, 2011

By my calculations your lights are on for 10 hours per day:
2 hours at 250 watts
4 hours at 500 watts
2 hours at 250 watts
2 hours at 250 watts
Lights off for 14 hours.

Does the tank get any natural light? You wrote that you get less GDA where the light is further away. This sounds like a pretty big clue to me to cut down on your light! Have you tried an 8 hour photoperiod? At this point it seems like a very easy variable to paly with. Another option may be to see if you can diffuse the light some. Most hardware store sell rolls of black plastic screen material that should filter out 'some' of the light hitting the tank. I am by no means an expert but this seem like a painless and easy thing to experiment with.

TortoiseBoy

· #427 · Aug 27, 2011

Hello,
I have been trying the MCI for a week or two and I have ended up with the algae in the attached pictures. Can anyone help me ID this algae and let me know what I can do about it? I was thinking it might be one of the species of rhodophytes (sp?) that Christian mentioned in his summary, but I could tell. Anyway, I never made it to GSA the first time I tried the NO3 protocol. I have lots of this algae instead. I am trying again after a big water change. I have added some MgSO4 to try to improve my Mg:Ca ratio. Oh, and CO2 and light should not be an issue.

Thanks in advance!

TB

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2

farrenator

· #428 · Sep 26, 2011

You may want to post this in its own thread. This site can move kind of slowly at times and people may not be checking this thread very often. I wish I had an answer for you but I don't - but I do have that type of algae as well. It grows on my Anubias, albeit quite slowly now. I am dosing according to PPS Pro but at double the amount - the ratios between ferts is the same though.

TortoiseBoy said:
Hello,
I have been trying the MCI for a week or two and I have ended up with the algae in the attached pictures. Can anyone help me ID this algae and let me know what I can do about it? I was thinking it might be one of the species of rhodophytes (sp?) that Christian mentioned in his summary, but I could tell. Anyway, I never made it to GSA the first time I tried the NO3 protocol. I have lots of this algae instead. I am trying again after a big water change. I have added some MgSO4 to try to improve my Mg:Ca ratio. Oh, and CO2 and light should not be an issue.

Thanks in advance!

TB

Newt

· #429 · Sep 27, 2011 (Edited)

TortoiseBoy said:
Hello,
I have been trying the MCI for a week or two and I have ended up with the algae in the attached pictures. Can anyone help me ID this algae and let me know what I can do about it? I was thinking it might be one of the species of rhodophytes (sp?) that Christian mentioned in his summary, but I could tell. Anyway, I never made it to GSA the first time I tried the NO3 protocol. I have lots of this algae instead. I am trying again after a big water change. I have added some MgSO4 to try to improve my Mg:Ca ratio. Oh, and CO2 and light should not be an issue.

Thanks in advance!

TB

If its black in color and not green its a type of Rodophyta 2 (red algae family). If its green then its most likely GSA. It looks black so>Increase MgSO4, cut back on Fe and photoperiod. Keep filter clean and increase CO2 and keep it steady as possible.

Nano85

· #430 · Mar 5, 2012

Hopefully you guys can help me out.
For the past two months I have been battling algae and nothing seems to get rid of it. I recently came across Carlos' MCI method I am currently on day two of the kno3 GSA method. My questions pertain to MCI and this algae I have. It is very long green stringy algae that is attaching itself to everything, especially my glosso. I have a bit of BGA as well. I had a huge problem with GDA but this morning it seemed to be under control and I didn't have much on my glass (usually I have to wipe the sides every morning). I have been dosing around 4ppm of KNO3 for two days. Will the stringy algae go away once I figure out proper dosing or will I have to go through drastic measure to remove it (bleaching, manual removal, H2O2, etc)?
Thank you for your time!

Best
Rudy

Plant Water Leaf Natural environment Branch

Plant Terrestrial plant Vegetation Grass Aquatic plant

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2

wiijixx

· #431 · Oct 22, 2013

Hi everyone!
I have a little problem with my tank.

Tank description:
190 L (50 gal), presurized Co2, 200w (150w hqi 6500 + 50w T5 2700), 1000 l/h fluval filter. Kh5-6 Ph 6,5. 50% water changes per week (25% tap water 75% osmosis)

I started with 1gr per day first week, then 2gr. Cyano(BGA) invassion and heteranthera turning black.
After a couple of month I had to re start my setup, because BGA.

I have re-started with a few plants and 3gr per day Kno3 (10ppm per day). Firsts weeks it was ok, but now BGA is growing again (but slower than with 1gr or 2 gr), and heteranthera getting black. In only just have a bit spot algae.
Questions are:
- is my kno3 pure?
- Does my plants eat too much nitrate (200w/12h)? (and they have to grow x5 or x6 to finish setup, only 3 weeks setup)
- other?

Waht the hell is happing here?

Sometimes I connect an UV filter to get cristal water. Maybe it destroy kno3... dont know.

If this keeps happening, i'll have to increase to 4gr or 5gr or 6gr kno3 per day (plants has to grow a lot more), but I think that this is too much salt in the water. isnt is?

Plz help me

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Christian_rubilar

Discussion Starter · #432 · Oct 22, 2013

Heterahthera is a bio indicator of lack of Kno3, to have ciano too. You have HQI, so, yes, they problably need more.
The deal with Kno3 is that potassium is used and works as a limit. So, I think the answer is not. It is different if you use another salt.
I believe that your plants use them all.
You don´t mention other plants, so I asume that you have a monoculture. In those cases the consumptions can be very weird.
I discovered that some plants have special need and consumptions because i used to cultivate aquarium plants as a bussisness for paying the university.
The problem with hereteranthera is that you see the damage in the plant too fast when you have a lack.
You mention that you use ro water? why? might there be an excess of Po4? Just guessing.

Yo-han

· #433 · Oct 22, 2013

Uv can't destroy inorganic salts like KNO3. I think the reason is the 200W over 190L, this is 150W more than needed and you're more likely than not to have algae.

Christian_rubilar

Discussion Starter · #434 · Oct 22, 2013

Yo-han said:
Uv can't destroy inorganic salts like KNO3. I think the reason is the 200W over 190L, this is 150W more than needed and you're more likely than not to have algae.

The "rules" about light per gallon doesn´t work with HQI. Depends on how far they are from the water, the bulb, the kind of luminary.

One thing is sure, with this light and proper Co2, those plants are going to uptake a lot of Kno3.

I had double that light in one tank without algae, it´s all about to find the uptakes.

You can also put the light a little farer from the water if you want to slow down the tank.

wiijixx

· #435 · Oct 22, 2013 (Edited)

Thanks a lot Rubilar. Sorry my english is very bad, i'll write same questions in english and spanish, i know that Rubilar is spanish native.

Do you think that a possible solution could be to put some K2SO4 because K limits the use of NO3? and maybe more KNO3?

Is a problem to put a lot of salt in the aquarium? i think that when plants grow up, they could need 7 or 8 gr per day (50gr per week!!!). All this salt will be used? someone told me that KNO3 will be absorved by the plants, and transformed into another kind of salt that plants dont use...
I use RO water because tap water is KH12 ph 8-9
I`ll upload photos now

Y ahora en Español, mi idioma nativo. No hace falta que me respondas en español, entiendo bien el ingles.
Si pongo sulfato potasico aumentare entonces el consumo de nitrogeno verdad? con todo y con eso creo entonces que tendre que aumentar la cantidad de kno3, algo que no he hecho hasta ahora por el miedo a convertir el agua en agua salada. No será esto perjudicial? en algun lugar lei que las sales al ser absorvidas por las plantas se convierten en otro tipo de sal no usada por las plantas y que dicha sal se va acumulando siendo perjudicial. ¿has usado alguna vez tanto KNO3 en tus acuarios como planeo usar yo? Hablo de mas de 50gr cuando el acuario este en su apogeo.

Uso agua de osmosis por que el agua del grifo tiene ph 8-9 y kh 12
Voy a subir unas fotos.

EDITED: photos

http://www.flickr.com/photos/antoniocosme/sets/72157636842762453/

THANKS A LOT!

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Christian_rubilar

Discussion Starter · #436 · Oct 23, 2013 (Edited)

wiijixx said:
Do you think that a possible solution could be to put some K2SO4 because K limits the use of NO3? and maybe more KNO3?

It makes no sense.

I already gave my point of view. All I know is in the MCI, there is nothing left. I suggest you read it, you have my answers there.

But it is a mistake to make a mix of methods. You are doing that. I don't recommend to use potassium sulfate because produces the opposite you asserted. The lack limits, not the excess you propose. The problems normally happends when your No3 is zero, this is easier if you add potassium sulfate. The MCI limits K because I think the aquarium is more stable. There are a few plants that have special uptakes of K. Here is where my approach is different to the EI (lacks produces algae) or the old doctrine (excess produces algae). I suggest a method to discover the real uptakes of your plants in order to find the balance and I assert that imbalances allow algae to bloom.

I suggest you open a new thread. With all my respect, this one is not about your tank.

The whole idea when I wrote the MCI was to avoid to be essential. You can solve your issues without me. I don't agree with the "guru" approach where all depends on the personal answers of somebody. All I know is at the MCI, you have to follow it and make your own experience.

With all my respect, I m too busy. I'm a lawyer who defend illegal immigrants from deportation at Federal Courts and I'm overwhealmed with work and responsabilities because I have no space for mistakes.

Regards

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niko

· #437 · Oct 23, 2013

Wow, he is back from the dead! Nice to see you here Christian!

This thread makes way more sense than many things we love to discuss in this hobby. Thank you for it!

wiijixx

· #438 · Oct 23, 2013 (Edited)

Sorry, Rubilar I have read your method more than 5 times, I think I didnt explain correctly. I use your method only, MCI. My english is no good and maybe i didnt understand your answer, I thouhg you told me to use potasium sulfate

I go to the simple point then, easier to understund to me: ¿what is the solution to this problem? ¿have I to add more and more KNO3 until heteranthera goes right and ciano dissapear? i didnt do that, because i thougt that too many KNO3 would add too much salt to the water...

Christian_rubilar

Discussion Starter · #439 · Oct 23, 2013

1) Ciano protocol;
2) Kno3 protocol until you have GSA (Alga verde punto).

The MCI is in Spanish, just google MDC or Metodo de los desequilibrios controlados.

Regards

Christian_rubilar

Discussion Starter · #440 · Oct 23, 2013

niko said:
Wow, he is back from the dead! Nice to see you here Christian!

This thread makes way more sense than many things we love to discuss in this hobby. Thank you for it!

I´m not dead, just toooooooo busy. The last 3 years I was developing a legal strategy to by pass the green card and go straight for citizenship for illegal immigrants who arrived without visa to Argentina.

I already won over 40 cases but I had to develope all the precedents that allow me to by-pass the requirements stablished by the federal judges.

http://baexpats.org/topic/10071-argentine-citizenship-for-foreigners/

And I had children in between.

I bought a new tank 18 monts ago. It is still empty...

421 - 440 of 478 Posts

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