[johnwesley0]

No. Culturing more critters in a separate container won't free up my weekends. The juvies completely ignore flake food.

 

[mistergreen]

They’re not eating bbs?
You can take the easy approach in culturing. Put a few in a big glass jar with a aquarium mulm and some Tiny bit of veg And put by the window for light. You should have a self sustaining small population running.

 

[johnwesley0]

They’re not eating bbs?
You can take the easy approach in culturing. Put a few in a big glass jar with a aquarium mulm and some Tiny bit of veg And put by the window for light. You should have a self sustaining small population running.

I'll try it.

 

[johnwesley0]

Put a few in a big glass jar with a aquarium mulm and some Tiny bit of veg And put by the window for light.

The irony is that describes my tank perfectly. I'm hoping that by keeping the juvies well-fed with bbs for the next few days a few daphnia will survive and find places to breed. The juvies are spending an unusual amount of time in the floater roots, behavior I haven't seen since the early days of the tank. I'll bet that's where the daphnia are hiding.
As an update of a different kind, the juvies are pretty far along the road to maturity. At one point recently, all three females were nesting and the male still has his breeding colors. But alas, nothing came of it. Everyone's out and about:

 

[mistergreen]

The more you can put mulm in the jar the better. The sun will drive little critters for the daphnia to eat.
I've been eyeing some apistos too. A. Macmasteri looks interesting, A. agassizi too.

 

[johnwesley0]

Both were in the running until the very end. I think the only reason I wound up with A. Borelli was that the other two were sold out.

 

[johnwesley0]

Interesting development with the daphnia/live food situation. There is definitely something infesting the roots of the salvinia. Every time I disturb them a small cloud of something falls out and begins to float gently downward. They are the exact same size as newly hatched baby brine shrimp, but how likely is it that they would survive that long in freshwater? The apistos chow down on them eagerly which I suppose is the proof in the pudding. Have I actually achieved a daphnia culture inside the breeding tank?

 

[mistergreen]

Hmm, it's a big tank, they might be living in the roots of the floaters. They usually explode in population, eat all the food, and then die off.

 

[johnwesley0]

Hmm. Sounds like allowing the apistos to cull the herd would be a good idea, meaning I should cut down on feeding them freshly hatched bbs.

 

[mistergreen]

You could have gotten cyclops with your daphnia too. They're the size of BBS. The swimming pattern of daphnia movement is jerky.

 

[marple]

Great topic is this, I really enjoyed reading all your adventures. Perhaps I missed something but do you still have the three adults in your porcelain bowl?

I don't know about the A. Borelli, but my experience with daphnia and whitecloud mountain minnows is the daphnia disappear within a couple of days... But I don't have a lot of floaters so less hiding for them. And I think they also get caught on the powerhead. Do you use something for water circulation? (I can't remember having read if you use a powerhead, but it took me a couple of days to read everything so I might have forgotten...)

 

[johnwesley0]

Only one of the original four adults I purchased in February remains. The porcelain bowl became overstocked at nine adult fish at one point. But if I hadn't moved them all, I eventually would not have had any fry left in the apistogramma tank.

No powerhead. The A. borelli seem to like the quiet, still water. I think you're right about the daphnia. But something seems to have piggy-backed with the daphnia and taken up residence in the roots of the floating plants. The juvies will eat them as they get hungry. @mistergreen thinks they are cyclops.
I haven't taken a snapshot in a while:

 

[mistergreen]

Wow, your tank is a jungle.

 

[marple]

Nice! You sure got a lot of hiding places. I imagine the apisto's will love your tank. Too bad for the other adults.

So cool you have been able to realise this with just lighting as the only tech thing. I've read that without water circulation it can be quite tricky to get it working properly, especially in bigger tanks.. Do you have an idea what makes it work with your tank?

 

[marple]

By the way, have you ever considered putting shrimp in your tank? I know the apisto's will hunt for them but you have so much cover that maybe it could work?

 

[johnwesley0]

Nice! You sure got a lot of hiding places. I imagine the apisto's will love your tank. Too bad for the other adults.

So cool you have been able to realise this with just lighting as the only tech thing. I've read that without water circulation it can be quite tricky to get it working properly, especially in bigger tanks.. Do you have an idea what makes it work with your tank?

Wow. Thank you! I really appreciate that. If I could pat myself on the back for one thing, I would say it was picking the right species. I knew going in that my NYC soft water would be a continuing problem and that many apistos actually prefer that. And the more I read about the A. Borelli, that they liked still water, that they liked detritus and lots of hiding places - the more they just shouted, "Low Tech!" As I posted, they started breeding right away.

Additionally, I didn't take any chances with the plants. For such a large tank, I thought it was really important to have terrestrials with their "aerial advantage" in there sucking up ammonia/ammonium faster than the beneficial bacteria could convert it to nitrates. Low nitrates are really the key to fewer water changes, IMO. Humble hat back on. LOL.

ETA: Also, I think one reason people prefer circulation in large tanks is to evenly distribute the heat from thermostatic heaters. I get around that by locating the tank in a room that is basically over-heated all year round.

 

[marple]

I think you make live a lot easier when you use the circumstances to your advantage.
Even though a challenge from time to time is not a bad thing as well 😀

For what I've read circulation is also important for an even distribution of nutrition to the plants. And for oxygen. I have the idea that oxygenation is the most tricky thing without circulation, but I'm probably biased because I had problems with anaerobic soil and added a powerhead for that reason (among other things). Would love to be able to do without though.
I wonder if it's the combination of well rooting plants and a low amount of fish compared to the number of plants is what makes it work with the oxygen in your tank?

As for the nitrates, would it matter if it was a bit higher? With so much plants it would be consumed immediatly I guess. Probably almost impossible to get a high nitrate with your tank 😄

Not that I'm an expert in anything related to planted tanks, just trying to get it 😅

 

[johnwesley0]

I wonder if it's the combination of well rooting plants and a low amount of fish compared to the number of plants is what makes it work with the oxygen in your tank?

I was much less worried about oxygenation than I was about the nitrification process. The dimensions of the tank are such that the water column is rarely more than 10 or 11 inches high, and the surface area available for the exchange of atmospheric oxygen was pretty generous. But yes, this was never going to be a heavily populated tank; even when it was a community tank, it topped out at 10 small-sized adults.

As for the nitrates, would it matter if it was a bit higher? With so much plants it would be consumed immediatly I guess. Probably almost impossible to get a high nitrate with your tank 😄

Well, the thing that @dwalstad makes clear in her book is that nitrate uptake is always going to be less efficient than ammonium/ammonia uptake in plants, just because of the way their metabolisms work. So yes, you are always going to be in the position of having to compensate for the slow accumulation of nitrates, depending on how much ammonium/ammonia gets left over for the bacteria to further breakdown. I am fortunate to be able to go for about 3 months before the nitrates reach ~40ppm.

 

[marple]

That's making it more clear for me, thanx!

I'll be following the adventures of your fish 😀

 

[PlentyCoup]

That's making it more clear for me, thanx!

I'll be following the adventures of your fish 😀

His journal is great! It had me almost abandoning my plans for a sunfish tank and switching to apistos lol.