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[smilie=r:[QUOTE]If I could solve the plumbing problems I think I would want to set up more and more creative sumps. For example: A planted sump between two tanks that also have a water bridge.[/QUOTE]

Cool idea. How about emersed plants growing along the water bridge.

I've often thought about building an emersed setup with a pump that pumps water to the top of some rocks creating a water fall. The water flows through an emersed setup and back into a regular aquarium. The idea sounds so peaceful to me. Ahhh...day dreamin'.
 

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A refugium has always been a dream of mine. I want ghost shrimp there.

I tried it once, without the ghost shrimp, I even have pictures up here on my shelf. I grew java fern and a bit of moss, along with Charophytes, but I didn't like them being dusted with debris. I also grew a bit of diatoms, and they were annoying to scrub off. Not so much as green spot algae though... SO I canceled the idea. I need more filter media in order to achieve such things. Brighter lighting would also help...

Dear Diana K: I have a solution to a dog drinking out of a sump: http://www.aquagiant.com/product_info.php/cPath/31_45_153/products_id/745

A cabinet. My tank came with everything built in: sump and pump and pipes and box corner. Mind you, the box corner is annoying.
 

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I was introduced to this tread by another member and I am hoping to get kind of a walk through / help with it.

As a new member and new to plants I am obviously seeking some advice.

This is the youtube vid of the leak test:

The design of the tank is 1 filter and 1 pump for multiple tanks. AKA a hydroponic system. The bottom has a refrigerium and the main tank should be hevily planted to provide benificial filtration for the top section.

Edit ...
P.S. I hope I didn't just hijack this thread .. sorry

P.s.s. I have a seperate thread regarding this set uo if anyone is willing to walk me through it.

Thanks
J-P
 

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Turns out my old ISP kept one of my old personal pages up, 'case anyone wants a super old howto from back when folks were not doing this. Lots of things changed over the years though: http://members.dslextreme.com/users/czcz/howto_fuge.html

What's your question or other thread, J-P? The pics and idea are sweeeeeet.
 

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WET,
Thanks for the kudos
basicly I cross posted (don't kill me).

I jumped in on this tread cause I wasn't getting any "how to" replies on the other. I'm going to need a lot of hand holding on this project.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...ponds/67837-multi-tank-hydroponic-system.html

At the moment I am setting up the filtration for the unit, but would like recommendations on the refrigirum portion... from there we'll take it section by section
 

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Ok, I am totally new to sumps and I am thinking about giving it a try. I was thinking I would use a spare 10 gallon. Then the water would go through the filter and back up into the main tank. I have a few questions though.

What steps should I take to make it extremely quiet? (the tank is in my bedroom)

What is the point of having a drilled hole?

Do I need to literally seal the top of the sump or will it be fine to just lay a glass lid on top?

Also any basic step by step instruction that are available would be great, thanks
 

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Couple of points:

The sump is open (even with a lid). It is not a sealed unit like a canister.
Water can flow into the sump from the tank. (duh, that is the point- it is supposed to) It depends on gravity to flow.
A pump removes the water from the sump and sends it back up to the tank. The pump depends on electricity. (another duh!)

Watch what happens when the power fails! Follow the path of the water in your mind:

1) If the intake in the tank is too low then water from the tank will continue to siphon into the sump. Then onto the floor. Bummer. Perhaps even drain the tank until your fish think they are in training to become mud skippers.
2) If you set the intake up a bit higher then only a certain amount of water from the tank will siphon into the sump, then the siphon is broken. Goody! The water stops flowing!

So: Make sure the siphon is positioned correctly to stop flowing before the tank is empty. Make sure the sump is sized right so the sump can hold all the water that will flow from the tank. If the tank will drain down 1" below the normal water level, how many gallons is this? (obviously depends on tank size- you gotta do the math)

Next issue: If you are using a siphon over the edge of the tank, and the power goes out, and the water stops running... your siphon can drain out and not re-start when the power comes back on. Pump will then pump all the water out of the sump and into the tank... and perhaps over the edge... and onto the floor... (and maybe burn out the pump when it runs dry)
There are tricks around this, but IME they are not guaranteed to work. I have built automatic self starting siphons and still had water on the floor. :-( I have float switches in the sumps, but they do not work well.

Solution: If the tank is drilled (side or bottom) then the plumbing can be arranged so the restart does not depend on maintaining water in a complex siphon. On power up water fills to a certain point, then spills down the pipe.

Gravity fed pipes will not carry as much water as fast as the same size pipe when it is powered by a pump. (Especially when the intake is at the top of the tank) Do some research, and test a few things, but in general, over size the intake as a safety factor so the pump can run full speed and not overwhelm the pipe(s) that lead to the sump.

So... Lesson #1: Size all the components and equipment to suit each other.

Side notes:
If you have multiple tanks using one sump then that sump needs to be able to handle the overflow from all the tanks.

An intake that is plumbed through a drilled tank can be right at the water surface, but there is often more debris at the surface than 1" below the surface. Making a guard so keep the intake free of debris is one way of handling this, keeping the tank clean of loose plants and parts is good, and having multiple intakes are more good ways to avoid trouble.

Knotty Bitz, I do not think these systems can be made "extremely quiet". There are ways to reduce the gurgling, but I think there will always be some noise. Start by looking into Durso Standpipe.
 

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Excellent sump primer by Diana K.

Another tip. Try to find someone who has set these up before. My LFS guy has set up and maintained many sumps and he helped me get the right equipment from the start, helped me develop the plan, and came by to double check my work. A good resource with experience is invaluable.

Oh yeah, and if it is a guy from a LFS who is helping, buy stuff from him and keep him in business even if you have to pay a little extra.
 

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On Jan 8, newguy wrote
hey any of you guys tried something like this for automatic dosing? i am really curious if it works for planted tanks: http://www.marinedepot.com/dosing_pu...uadose-ap.html
I am thinking about adding such a type of automated dosing to my sump. It is gravity drip feed which will go directly into the sump. Another advantage of sumps. With a cabinet, it is completely hidden. I am looking at the 2.5 gal one ,which can provide good coverage. I dont know the difference between the marine depot and kent.

Anyone have good or bad experiences with such a setup? I am thinking of using it for macros and minors. With EDTA chelated Fe, the container would have to be kept in the dark. Maybe even separate doser for phospates. I wanted to initially keep it simple and not go the Peristaltic Dosing Pump route.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
hey nfrank, if you decide to go ahead please let us know the result. Also i would start with just a bottle of regular tank water, leave it dripping for a few days just to be safe. Last thing you want is 2.5 gallon of ferts dumped into the tank due to bad equipment.
 

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Excellent sump primer by Diana K.

Another tip. Try to find someone who has set these up before. My LFS guy has set up and maintained many sumps and he helped me get the right equipment from the start, helped me develop the plan, and came by to double check my work. A good resource with experience is invaluable.

Oh yeah, and if it is a guy from a LFS who is helping, buy stuff from him and keep him in business even if you have to pay a little extra.
If your LFS guy can't help you can experiment a little using foam cooler boxes. These really help before you start drilling glass and then realize you made a mistake.

As for the noise issue, that will be from the down drain primarily. If you extend the pipe to below the water level in the sump section, you've basicly silenced that area. If the stand pipe is just below the water level 1/4" ~1" it will quieten that section also.
 

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ok so has it been determined that there's not as much gasoff as orifinally thought with a sump.I am planning on doing a 12X12X12 tank around 7 gal with a 15 gal sump but was worried about gasoff. also if you have pleanty of nutrient sucking plants in the sump , is it a necessity to have bio media in the sump. i have a filter that goes on the return pump. I have had sumps with sw on several occasions so i know the basics of them..just not with a planted tank..I am going to start a journal on this sometime today, but im going to dry start this tank with HC and dwarf hairgrass so i have around a month or so before i flood the tank.

Rick
 

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Hey guy's just wanted to put in my view on using a sump in a planted tank. Im currently using one on my 46 bowfront. I am utilizing an overflow box, which I affixed some plastic filter screen around the edge, in the rear box, the outflow is protected with a screen cone and a sponge. Im finding no issues with this yet, aside from the rear box has become a snail hatchery for Assassin Snail's. My sump return is protected by an inlet cage and sponge which works well for keeping it unclogged. The return line has a bleeder hole just below the surface. I just completed a DIY reactor and am planning on having it sit facing the return pump inlet. ANY WAY.... my point here is I dont see any reason not to run a sump. Ive had no bad luck with my tank aside from high ph. (doesnt help the system used to be a reeftank:doh:) Which is why Im starting co2.
 

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I have to admit, I am very curious why, whenever sumps come up, we can't use a closed siphon. I can think of only 2 reasons.

- restarting the siphon after power failure (if flood prevention is by siphon break)
- balancing the siphon flowrate with the return pump flowrate

Are these insurmountable? It seems like a lot of effort is spent preventing noise, CO2 degas, air entrainment, etc with overflows when a closed siphon would fix this for freshwater sumps.
I'm surprised no one did research into what saltwater reefers do to minimize noise. has no-one tried this:

be-an-animal's fail-safe overflow

It's a bit pricier, but it works. Basically only two pipes get used at once. One at full-siphon, the other so slightly that the water should stick to the sides. When you start it up, it gurgles a bit and quickly quiets down. Then you have a back-up pipe and the ability for a second pipe to become a full-siphon.

Two issues with the method:

(1) You'll have to custom drill the tank. Haven't found anyone who sells an overflow pre-drilled like this, which is sad.
(2) More $$ investment.

However, if you're running a sponge filter, and can keep the overflow into the sump submersed, it's *much* quieter than other sumps I've heard.

- Josh
 

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:D I have a planted 55 and a sump with bio wheel and have had it running for 10 years.. I let all the surface agitation possible with the overflow and the bio wheel because the air has a high concentration of CO2 and it transfers to the tank so I don't need to add any.

My plants have always done fine until the bulbs were old then I went with 4 30W exterior waterproof LED lights at $18 each from e-bay.

My plants are doing even better now with very little algae.

I feed quite a bit and have many fish.

My tank is not the norm. Most people that have a planted tank have only a few tiny fish they barely feed. They Add CO2, and other costly nutrients. It become rather expensive. I have done the same with none of that. The water changes add the nutrients and I have a piece of a pond tab under every plant. The plants are in trial stockings with a rock (weight) and peat moss and pond tab piece. Very inexpensive and does the job. Fact is that if there is enough CO2 in the air for the plants in nature, why wouldn't there be enough in your tank. You just need extreme agitation such as overflow, sump, bio wheel.
 

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I agree with all of the stated benefits of a sump. Tanks are fairly easy to drill yourself with commercial overflow boxes for sale that are reasonable and easy to silicone in place. I have used a Bean Animal type overflow system in a planted tank and I have to challenge the assertion that all overflows are louder than canisters. The Bean Animal is absolutely silent when done correctly and, once fine tuned to regulate desired flow, it need never be adjusted. The extra standpipe and emergency overflow provide more than enough redundancy to virtually eliminate flood risk in the main tank. You get all the benefits of surface skimming with the noise reduction of a full siphon. Use the Bean Animal link in a post above or search CalFlo overflows to learn more. Conversely, a single standpipe is at much greater risk for blockage and flood issues.

I can also attest to the fact in my experience that off-gassing of CO2 is not a major issue with a sump as is so often purported, especially if you use a wet sump design where the tank overflows into the sump below water level. That way, there is no air-water interface as in a wet-dry trickle filter for off-gassing to be a real issue. After switching to a drilled tank and sump for some time now in all of my tanks, I see a lot of benefits and can find no real negatives apart from some extra time and energy put into initial setup.
 

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I use a BeanAnimal 'Silent & Failsafe' overflow, also, and will never run a tank with any other kind again...had it with over-the-side nightmares...I love the redundancy of the emergency drain. Mine is absolutely dead quiet even while running close to 1000gph through it. Mine was set up as a reef tank that I am currently turning into a planted tank, but, other than reducing the flow to about 2/3, every thing else still applies. I think the hardest thing for me to change over on this is fitting a suitably fine mesh guard around the overflow to keep small fish from taking the scenic tour to the big chopper down below...! (fish and pump impellers-not a good mix). ]:D
 

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:D I have a planted 55 and a sump with bio wheel and have had it running for 10 years.. I let all the surface agitation possible with the overflow and the bio wheel because the air has a high concentration of CO2 and it transfers to the tank so I don't need to add any.

My plants have always done fine until the bulbs were old then I went with 4 30W exterior waterproof LED lights at $18 each from e-bay.

My plants are doing even better now with very little algae.

I feed quite a bit and have many fish.

My tank is not the norm. Most people that have a planted tank have only a few tiny fish they barely feed. They Add CO2, and other costly nutrients. It become rather expensive. I have done the same with none of that. The water changes add the nutrients and I have a piece of a pond tab under every plant. The plants are in trial stockings with a rock (weight) and peat moss and pond tab piece. Very inexpensive and does the job. Fact is that if there is enough CO2 in the air for the plants in nature, why wouldn't there be enough in your tank. You just need extreme agitation such as overflow, sump, bio wheel.
This method will work great for a low-tech setup, but won't grow a lot of more difficult plants. If you've ever run pressurized CO2 and you started to run out for a few days you can look in the tank and see which plants won't make it if it's not refilled soon. Those are the ones you can't keep without CO2 addition.

I'm running a wet /dry system on my 50 breeder size tank with a CPR CS90 overflow and overall I'm very happy with this setup. It does burn through some serious CO2 though. Keep in mind that my lighting is ultra high at 160 PAR so my CO2 levels also have to be ultra high. I'm going through 20 lbs of CO2 in 2 months, but it's still worth it to me so far. :D
 
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