[nordik]

Hi all,

i have started dosing a pmdd regime but am intending on trying out pps pro when i get some kh2p04.

i am a bit confused on the dosing differences between pps pro and pmdd.

as far as i can tell the "mix" is very similar. however the dosing is very different -

pps pro - 1 ml of each solution per ten gallons of tank size

pmdd - for each ten gallons, try around 1/12 ml of PMDD a day (roughly 2 drops)

that is a HUGE difference, hence the confusion. To add to the confusion pmdd recomends weekly wc where pps pro states wc as "optional"

if pmdd is only a 1/12 of the nutrient and recommends water changes how does pps pro add so much more and not require changes?


i have tried searching to answer my own question but haven't found the answer i was after hoping some of you may be able to clarify it for me.

many thanks.

 

[nordik]

I still haven't found any answers to this. sorry to bump.

apart from the added phosphate in pps pro the mixes and ratios added look to be very simmilar as pmdd. (unless my math is wrong)

i have compared the contents of the solutions and there may be slight differences but not 12x more in the pmdd.

is it that pmdd was jut to keep algae under control where pps is to encorage more overall growth?

i am dosing a pps pro mix without the phospate as i dont have any yet but am unsure which dosing to follow as my mix is probably closer to that of pmdd.

any help at all would be great no matter how small.

 

[delgriffth]

heres a link to a pmdd+po4 formula

http://www.jsctech.co.uk/theplantedtank/PMDD.htm

 

[jkan0228]

When you get better plant overall growth, the algae will naturally go away since PPS-Pro is providing just enough nutrients for the plants.
Keep in mind that the 1ml per 10 gallons is how much water you have. Not the tank size. Remember to take away your substrate space.

 

[nordik]

thank you both,

the pmdd+po4 formula looks good, though it does raise more questoins on dosing. James' dosing is 2mls per 10 gallons!!! his mix is not twice the strength of the pps pro either!

there is alot of recipe's out there and each come with their own dosing regime but there is alot of difference between each formula in the amount of actual chemical that goes into each 10 gallons.

I understand the theory of fertalizing to reduce algae and it is working for me so far. i have also been fertalizing less than my tank size to allow for substrate, driftwood ect.

though it is hard to dose for the right amount of water when there is so much discrepancy between the formulas "recomended dosing" even though the actual fertalizer solution is essentially the same..

thanks both for your input but i am still quite confused..

 

[ray-the-pilot]

if pmdd is only a 1/12 of the nutrient and recommends water changes how does pps pro add so much more and not require changes?

I follow The PPS Pro scheme but do 20% water changes each week. I have been following this plan successfully for about 2 years.

I do not think it is a good idea to do any plan that requires no regular water change.

 

[nordik]

I was not trying to avoid water changes, but trying to understand the concept and chemistry behind the different systems and the wide differences in each of their "recomeded" doses.

EI makes perfect sense in that it "overdoses" slightly and then resets the water weekly.

the other systems however dose the same chemicals at different doses and recomend less water needs to be changed with a higher dose. (as i read it and understand it currently)

am i the only one confused? Or have i miscalculated something?

as it stands i am dosing somewhere between pmdd and pps pro (less a bit for caution) but until i find the right doses for my tanks i would love to understand this better.

thanks again.

 

[JeffyFunk]

as it stands i am dosing somewhere between pmdd and pps pro (less a bit for caution) but until i find the right doses for my tanks i would love to understand this better.

thanks again.

I think this statement states it best. Every tank is different and so the nutritional needs for each tank is different. PPS Pro was developed after PMDD to incorporate the knowledge that phosphates do not (by themselves) cause algae. (PPS Pro only adds 0.1 ppm phosphate / day- Many people find that too low and adjust accordingly)

 

[ray-the-pilot]

thank you both,

the pmdd+po4 formula looks good, though it does raise more questoins on dosing. James' dosing is 2mls per 10 gallons!!! his mix is not twice the strength of the pps pro either!

there is alot of recipe's out there and each come with their own dosing regime but there is alot of difference between each formula in the amount of actual chemical that goes into each 10 gallons.

I understand the theory of fertalizing to reduce algae and it is working for me so far. i have also been fertalizing less than my tank size to allow for substrate, driftwood ect.

though it is hard to dose for the right amount of water when there is so much discrepancy between the formulas "recomended dosing" even though the actual fertalizer solution is essentially the same..

thanks both for your input but i am still quite confused..

OK there are a lot of opinions out on the net about dosing. What you want are facts.
Here is one:
I dose exactly as recommended by PPS Pro but I do 2 x 10% water changes per week. Following this plan I have more plant growth than I want and low levels of algae. I've been doing this for over two years.

My personal "opinion" is that no program will work with 0% water changes.

 

[nordik]

Thanks,

I think i am starting to understand bits and pieces of it all though i am guessing most of it.

as i see it -

pmdd - is a old system of a small dose of ferts which they claim will reduce algae. But i'm guessing does not make plants grow like mad because of such a small dose.

pps pro is a higher dose to encorage plant growth in an attempt for all toxins ect. to be consumed by the plants maintaining a closed ecosystem that requires no water changes.

ei - grow like mad and reset fert and toxin levels weekly to avoid build up of either

everyone else - does what suits their tank health and their lifestyle.

Am i understang it all correctly??

Sorry to keep banging on about the subject but in all my research i am still yet to find an answer as to WHY the doses are so different. Heaps of info but no answers as to why.

thanks for all your help and feedback.

and worry not i do do %20 weekly. My garden loves the water.

 

[wwh2694]

+1 to ray-the-pilot. I have been doing pps pro for more than a yr now and i still do water change every week or so. Every plants grow crazy with zero to minimal algae. I do water change to reset everything and my fish and snails like it .

 

[Greg Stephens]

I too started using the PPS-pro solutions and am loving the system.
I am finding I am going to have to modify the PO4 level in my solution #1.
I may also modify/raise the KNO3 levels in the #1 solution as well.
I have found that with the level of lighting I am using (1 250w MH and two 27w CFL's) I am having to
dry dose PO4 and KNO3 one a week.
Again I am assuming due to my lighting and plant load I am going to need to find the sweet spot so to speak.
I also do small daily water changes to cool down the temps in my tank.
(I make use of a corner over flow and a pressurized 1/4 water line that is on my well system)

Any recommendations on how much to raise the PO4 and KNO3 levels by in solution #1?

 

[ray-the-pilot]

I too started using the PPS-pro solutions and am loving the system.
I am finding I am going to have to modify the PO4 level in my solution #1.
I may also modify/raise the KNO3 levels in the #1 solution as well.
I have found that with the level of lighting I am using (1 250w MH and two 27w CFL's) I am having to
dry dose PO4 and KNO3 one a week.
Again I am assuming due to my lighting and plant load I am going to need to find the sweet spot so to speak.
I also do small daily water changes to cool down the temps in my tank.
(I make use of a corner over flow and a pressurized 1/4 water line that is on my well system)

Any recommendations on how much to raise the PO4 and KNO3 levels by in solution #1?

I never mess with either solution. When I check KPN and find one low, I add dry K2SO4, KHPO3 or Ca(NO3)2 depending what is needed.

 

[Greg Stephens]

I never mess with either solution. When I check KPN and find one low, I add dry K2SO4, KHPO3 or Ca(NO3)2 depending what is needed.

Alright I sort of figured as much.