[Endlesserror]

Hi, I was browsing though old threads as I prepare to set up a new tank and I can't find this anymore but I thought I read in a couple threads people saying they put a light dusting of KCl, Epsom Salt, etc. On the tank bottom before putting down the dirt to create a slow release of minerals into the soil rather than in the water column. In the more recent threads and in Diana's book, these additives are put into the water directly as needed based on symptoms of nutrient deficiency in the plants.

Any thoughts about if it's worth putting them down first? The reason I'm thinking about it is that when I. My first planted tank 3+ years ago some of my plants did start getting holes and I dosed the minerals accordingly, everything went fine for the plants and fish but my recently added shrimp all died in the next few weeks. I think probably the kh difference messed up their molting and I felt terrible and guilty and have not tried keeping shrimp since.

So after my free association rambling two questions

1. Is it every worth while to dust some minerals under the dirt layer when setting up a new aquarium?

2. If you end up doing minerals by adding things like Epsom salt etc on an established tank, how do you keep your shrimp safe?


Thanks!

 

[Jorge Soirse]

They should be safe, if the minerals aren't toxic... Perhaps you did not buy entirely pure ones? Or perhaps you overdosed. Or perhaps they died of something entirely unrelated. As for the minerals, I think it's easier just to put the reading hours into figuring out how to choose the right soil that won't need it. I'm currently dosing some minerals, but because I just went out and scooped dirt from my garden, zero planning.

 

[Endlesserror]

Hi Jorge,

I also used and plan on using again soil from my garden but about a year in my plants started getting holes in the leaves or parts of leaves melting again. I used the recommended salt subsitute KCl for Potassium, Epsom salt for Mg and brewers Calciumn Chloride for the Ca. I tried to follow the dosing for 10 g as best I could.

Does that mean adding these should not change water hardness?

 

[johnwesley0]

I think dosing the water column makes more sense than seeding the substrate. I say this because the problem plants are more likely to be stem plants rather than extensively rooted ones. Stem plants source their nutrients primarily from the water column. You also have more control over the dosage by using the water column as your primary delivery system. You can always do a quick water change if you add too much. You can't do that so easily with substrate.

 

[Jorge Soirse]

Assuming a low tech setup, I find it hard to believe the plants would need waaay more of X mineral than what they already have. You might need to give it a bump. You could consider doing it in another way, IE feeding with something that has plenty of that. The amount of micronutrients plants need is... Well, "micro". Toss a few blanched zucchini thins now and again for Potassium, same with spinach for magnesium (and some potassium), and some shells for Ca. It avoids risking dry ferts, and as it is just a slight mod on your feeding routine, it does not really change much. If that does not work in two or three weeks, have at them with the original recipe.

 

[maico996]

I agree above with JohnWesley. If you find down the road that your rooted plants are showing signs of nutrient deficiency you can always add root tabs. I'd stay away from adding anything to the soil, or try some commercial organic potting soil instead of what's in your garden.

 

[dwalstad]

Any thoughts about if it's worth putting them down first? The reason I'm thinking about it is that when I. My first planted tank 3+ years ago some of my plants did start getting holes and I dosed the minerals accordingly, everything went fine for the plants and fish but my recently added shrimp all died in the next few weeks. I think probably the kh difference messed up their molting and I felt terrible and guilty and have not tried keeping shrimp since.

Shrimp are trickier than you would think. They can die from big water changes that would not harm fish or plants. Then, you have diseases. Then, you have male aggression during mating that can cause female death and a colony to slowly die off.

I cannot imagine that a KH difference would hurt Neocaridina shrimp. I just dumped enough KHCO3 (potassium bicarbonate) into my shrimp bowls to bring KH up from 0 to 3 degrees. Shrimp didn't even blink.

 

[Endlesserror]

Shrimp are trickier than you would think. They can die from big water changes that would not harm fish or plants. Then, you have diseases. Then, you have male aggression during mating that can cause female death and a colony to slowly die off.

I cannot imagine that a KH difference would hurt Neocaridina shrimp. I just dumped enough KHCO3 (potassium bicarbonate) into my shrimp bowls to bring KH up from 0 to 3 degrees. Shrimp didn't even blink.

Hi Diana, thanks for the perspective on neocardinia shrimp in particular! I've tried getting them a couple of times and both went very poorly with either gradual or mass die offs. All the resources online make shrimp sound so miraculously easy and non-aggressive and disease free and that the thing to be careful of is TDS so I patched onto the variable kh. I've had absolutely no issue with fish in my planted tank but oh the shrimp!

 

[dwalstad]

Hi Diana, thanks for the perspective on neocardinia shrimp in particular! I've tried getting them a couple of times and both went very poorly with either gradual or mass die offs. All the resources online make shrimp sound so miraculously easy and non-aggressive and disease free and that the thing to be careful of is TDS so I patched onto the variable kh. I've had absolutely no issue with fish in my planted tank but oh the shrimp!

Agree that everyone makes it sound so easy. Not so! Some of my colonies are thriving; others (Yellow ones) died off no matter what I did. RCS in my 20 gal are breeding like there is no tomorrow. I had a fantastic Blue colony, breeding like crazy. I got complacent, sold and gave away a whole bunch. Two years later, the remnants are struggling. I am patiently waiting for the few individuals left to reproduce.
I think there's a sociological aspect. They seem to have herd behavior. If you break up a happy herd too much, they either struggle from inbreeding or shrimp depression or loss-of-instruction from the elder shrimp?
But then scientists put a berried female in 2 liter containers with Java moss and aeration and TetraColor flake food and wait for the babies. Works very well for them. I'm going to try that.
Attached is photo of my shrimp bowls: RCS in one, Blues in the other. I will be displaying it at my aquarium club's workshop next weekend where there will be a shrimp contest and talk.