Aquatic Plant Forum banner
21 - 37 of 37 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
645 Posts
Carlos do you by any chance of a load of surface scum on the tank? Also what bulbs are you using. After pretty much a year of wanting/trying to figure this plant out i think i got it (Knock of wood a bunch of times). Are your other plants pearling?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,715 Posts
Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Shawn,

All my plants pearl heavily, including the Rotala sp Green. It really is a poor indicator of plant health. I've tried growing Rotala sp Green under 6700k+9325k bulbs and under URI Aquasun/Coral Life Trichromatic NO bulb combinations. No luck.

It's not CO2, either. I've discounted NO3 as well. It has increased in growth rate, but it still looks as bad as ever.

No surface scum before increasing the light. After increasing the lighting, I did start to get some surface scum. That's not it either.

Carlos
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
215 Posts
Carlos,

Have you been able to grow Rotala sp. green with good appearance in the past?

"lost a lot of "sparkle" and seems "dirty"" is not a good sign. I would bet your parameters have gotten way outa wack.

This plant is easy in my lean conditions at >4 dKH and >4 dGH. Did you try softer water?

___
Jeff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
645 Posts
When i increased my fish load/Changed to 10000k/rid myself of surface scum the plant really started to pick up. I did all this at the same time so i do not know what it is. But all my plants are now pearling and streaming when they were not before. I was thinking maybe the o2 level in the high range is what the plant likes but maybe not. A question for anyone who has it growing nicely... Does it form much of a root system?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,715 Posts
Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Jeff,

It would be interesting to note that soft water does have an effect on the Rotala genus. I've grown Rotala sp Green (along with macrandra, wallichii, wallichii 'long leaf', sp Nanjenshan) at home with great success. By home I mean south Florida, where the water hardness is KH 4, GH 5.

My nutrient levels were similar. I actually dosed a little less macro and micro nutrients into the system I had there --pretty lean. :)

Carlos
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
886 Posts
Carlos, any updates? Was there algae associated with this problem. In addition to my regular routine, I've started dosing every day, iron and tmg. Things are looking better, and I can't believe that the plants would need so much fertilizer. I guess we are running ultra-high light tanks, and puts them in a dosing category that I am not used to.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,715 Posts
Discussion Starter · #27 ·
I tried tripling the amount of KNO3 I was dosing for about two weeks and then stopped. The tank was obviously crashing (hard) due to an explosion of algae of three different sorts, and the Rotala sp Green was not looking not one bit better after two weeks (was growing fast...but the health of the new growth was really bad). I pulled the plug and sold the entire setup.

Is algae related to the Rotala sp Green problem I had? Nope. My Rotala sp Green was stunting just as badly when I took my photos for the ADA contest when there was near zero algae in the tank. Increasing and decreasing my iron/micronutrient dosing did not help nor did shifting around my phosphate levels. either. Increasing CO2 by even a tad led to gasping fish in the morning.

I KNOW it was not due to lighting, CO2, nitrate, phosphate, or iron.

I haven't tried growing it in softer water, yet.

Carlos
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
215 Posts
tsunami said:
I KNOW it was not due to lighting, CO2, nitrate, phosphate, or iron.
I've some chronic leaf curl symptoms with Hygro Kompact. Since I rather like the bushy look it creates I have little need to try to fix it entirely. However, I seem to notice less curling as CO2 enrichment and overall tank momentum is reduced. When I see this plant grown in tanks with lower CO2 enrichment and slower momentum it always has flat leaves and less branching.

I suspect that leaf curl problems are usually influenced by tank momentum and interspecies competition for nutrients. My most wild and unsupportable speculation suspects that these factors provide a weakness that allows some sort of, normally dormant or unaffecting, fungal, bacterial or viral outbreak in weakened plant tips. With several species I have had positive reinforcment from trimming and trashing curled tips to let the side shoots develop. With E. stellata this has been my primary means of propagation.

Slowing the momentum of a tank perhaps reduces interspecies competition for nutrients.

___
Jeff
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,069 Posts
Carlos,
I had a huge weedy patch of Rotala green. Crap took over fast and has a well developped root system. If i kept up on pruning it did very well.

I left for a couple of weeks and did not fertilize, it stunted and took awhile to come back.

I think once the plant stunts, it takes a long time to recover.
Ammannia and other plants will sometimes show this.

But they did recover. Why does this occur?
The plants seem to try to outpace the water when submerged in water with growth as long as nutrients are there.
Once the nutrients run out, they just sit inactive. They do not die, but are likely waiting for the water levels to drop.

Getting them started again takes time.
I had the plant grow back some and get started again.

But.......getting new fresh growing stems would solve the issue and if you keep on the nutrient routine.

Some plants do seem better in softer water but I keep finding myself growing the plants well in harder water later on or find someone that has.

Some tanks even with all the nutrients and CO2/light etc, still need some time to balance out and get going. This takes about 3-4 weeks for me.
Some plants respond slower. This is one of them.

Less light and thereby less reliance on CO2/nutrients also helps with many species even in very hard water.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
645 Posts
All i know is that its growing good for me now. And i owe it to Tom. He put me on a new fert routine to get rid of algae and by doing that this plant perked up bigtime. One thing i can say is with all the rain the water has gone down 4 degrees KH and i dont know about GH. So maybe the softer water is key. But i hope not because once rain season is over it would crash if that were true. Tom what is the hardest water you have grown it in?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,700 Posts
Carlos,

It still looks iron deficient to me. I think you said you are using Flourish iron, which is iron gluconate, which does not last long in solution because the gluconate is quickly broken down. You might try some other form of chelated iron. I use iron DTPA, which stays in solution for weeks. I can send you a few ounces of it if you can't get it locally and want to experiment with it. It is sold by Ciba Gigey as Librel Fe-DP. See http://www.cibasc.com/VIEW.ASP?ID=3833. For me, it stays in solution longer than iron EDTA, which tends to precipitate out the iron when exposed to light.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,069 Posts
Tropica uses this chelator(DTPA) also.

I grew it at 6KH/9GH.

As long as you keep it growing well and prune it, it will go to town.
Don't let it get overshadowed either.

Somethings it just does not like.

I think it's one of those plants like Mic umbrosum but slower to respond.
M umbrosum you can find along pool edges and growing/creeping into the water some. Both are low NO3 sensitive. The Mic will bounce back quick, not the Rotala.

I purposely stunted the Green Rotala a few months back and then started to coax it back. I was not happy but it did come back after a couple of weeks of coddling.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,715 Posts
Discussion Starter · #34 ·
I like to use Micranthemum umbrosum as my nitrate indicator, actually. Throughout the entire time that the Rotala sp Green was limping along, the M. umbrosum was producing very impressive foliage up to 1" wide (cS can attest to that with the specimens I sent him a few months ago).



I don't think it is iron... not when I was dosing about 3mL of Flourish AND 3 mL of Flourish Iron daily (21mL of each every week!).

Side note: I tried increasing this dosing amount, actually, but ended up with a lot of dead amano shrimp. I was dosing 6mL of each daily. So, amano shrimp are sensitive to iron but you have to dose A LOT to kill them... :oops:

Fish were oblivious/unharmed.

Carlos
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,069 Posts
Def one of my favorite pairings.

As far as Mic and Rotala, one plant can bounce back and grow very fast. The Rotala seems to stunt and not recover like the Mic which is great for that.


Some plants are more sensitive to lower levels of NO3, some can handle it well.

The same can be said for when the nutrient drop too low for recovery.
Some plants just switch off and I have not tried it eyt, but I bet if the water level was dropped the plants would flower or start growing again.

These are more palusible difference in growth than allelopathic chemicals which to date have not been shown to occur in natural systems.

These are areas we should talk about and compare.
Figure the plant out well.

It is a weed if you let it run and I like it's smoothering growth a lot.
It's a nice plant for the gardener.

Reghards,
Tom Barr
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,700 Posts
If you can't tie the problems of your Rotala sp. green to a nutrient deficiency, then you have to consider something toxic to which the Rotala may be more sensitive than the other plants. Some plastics and other man-made polymers can break down slowly, possibly because of bacterial action, and release substances that can make the plants look sick.

I once tried making "cages" for Daphnia out of a nylon window curtain material. The cages protected the Daphnia from the fish and lasted for years, but the curtain fabric gave off something that caused what looked like extreme calcium deficiency in my plants. Hygrophila and Vallisneria were the most sensitive and died while crypts still looked OK. Eventually, in about two months, the crypts started developing symptoms, too.

More recently, I discovered that the dark plastic trays from microwave dinners as well as clear plastic from soda pop bottles gives off something that makes lower leaves develop holes or frayed edges and then drop off. This happens when nutrients like K and Mg, whose deficiencies cause similar symptoms are in good supply. Again, some plants are more susceptible than others.
 
21 - 37 of 37 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top