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Thinking loud....

As we know, algae, cyano and else are really primitive life forms. The forms that we encounter today are the one that evolve and survive the multiple great extinctions that appears in the timeline of our planet. They are the toughest buggers of all time, a success of evolution.

Some theory bring the possibility that cyanobacteria was so abundant in the early ocean that they are a major player in the apparition of a non-toxic breathable atmosphere that give us our chance.

Life have tendency to fill empty space and the only purpose of our greenish champions is to multiply and conquer.

Well, lucky we are, other forms of life start to compete with our friends, always finding new way to outcompete them, smarter and complex new designs, giving us today our diverse type of plants that we try to constrain to a big jug of water.

Those plants are another success of evolution, we are not, and for that reason we gather here to pierce the secrets of life.

By the law of nature if the higher forms of plant thrive they will take the place, but not eliminate their simple ancestors, algaes.

I was a partisan of PMDD but those new approach ring a bell.

Always have just the right amount of nutrient without overdosing, good levels of light, water movements ( good for Prandtl boundary), oxygen and all. Bring every week lot of new well prepared water with the right basic parameter.

Just thinking... Somebody try to ad peroxide to oxygenate RO water?
 

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Hi

Being new here, glad to have found this thread.
Hope to find an answer too. Much liked the comic of the guy climbing up the mountain to find the Guru so to seek the ultimate question in life that "why plants grow well will have no algae ?" :hail:

What if every theory every hypothesis is right ?

We were told to limit P, it works.

We were told to limit Fe, it works.

We were told to only feed from the substrate, it works

We were told to water column feeding, it works

We were told to portion the right amount each week, it works

We were told to limit NH4 and feed everything inorganic to the plants' content, it works.

May be the answer could simply be "because plants grow well hence no algae.":confused: (Hey, I think that was what Tom try to tell us all this while ! What's wrong with you people ? Why can't we take that as THE answer - period. : )


Cheers !
dc
 

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dc88 said:
May be the answer could simply be "because plants grow well hence no algae."
Everyone that has planted tanks already know this. We want to know why algea stops growing when the plants grow well and are happy.

Tom Barr aka plantbrain are the only one offering a glimpse of the truth of what might be going on here. Algae are tiny organisms that only bloom if there are no competition like happy plants and they seem to be able to know if there are other happy well growing organism around them - and it seems algae "listens" to variations in NH4-levels and Oxygen-levels.

When oxygen-levels drops and NH4 rises - time to bloom.

Happy plants means relatively small variations of high oxygen levels and tiny variations of very low NH4-levels.

How algae are able to listen to oxygen and NH4 I have no clue about though ;)
 

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defdac said:
Everyone that has planted tanks already know this. We want to know why algea stops growing when the plants grow well and are happy.
Alright, it was wrong for me to say that then (it was a late night post...), so let me also try to chip in my 2 cents of speculation then....

defdac said:
Tom Barr aka plantbrain are the only one offering a glimpse of the truth of what might be going on here. Algae are tiny organisms that only bloom if there are no competition like happy plants and they seem to be able to know if there are other happy well growing organism around them - and it seems algae "listens" to variations in NH4-levels and Oxygen-levels.

When oxygen-levels drops and NH4 rises - time to bloom.

Happy plants means relatively small variations of high oxygen levels and tiny variations of very low NH4-levels.

How algae are able to listen to oxygen and NH4 I have no clue about though ;)
May be it is not that algae learn to known oxygen and NH4 variation. But because that low oxygen and high NH4 were exactly the kind of environment they were first evolved in ?
Algae came before plant, didn't they ?
So for plant to came to the evolution scence they have to turn the table around or else they would not have become "plants" and would just be another "algae" ?

Oops, then this will lead to the speculation of the plant actively shape the environment to their advantage..and then the active carbon test will disprove this....

BTW talk about the active carbon test, wouldn't the micro nutrient will also be removed in such a test hence not conclusive ? (No allelopathic chemical but also no Fe or P so we can't really demonstrate the absence of allelopathic chemical ?)
 

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Oh Yes ! The writing is indeed on the wall ! Didn't notice in the first read.
Quot "
Low O2, High NH4 => algae spore germination
"
(So there needs to be a threshold initial to kick start these thing ?)

The other staffs (NO3, Fe, P, etc) are perhaps "growth limiter/promoter"? but if there is no "spark initiator" liked signal of high NH4 and low O2, even high level of "growth promoters" may still not trigger algae to bloom ?

If to further the thought, could it be such that : if algae spore germination started (e.g. we see BBA in our tank) we reduce the level of NH4 but up the other nutrient it just speed up the algae life cycle which ended them into the spore generation waiting for the next NH4 signal hence we see algae actually disappear ? (Hence added NO3 or PO4 at this stage may actually "reduce" the algae ?) And then we learn the lession to limit NH4 so the next spore germination do not happen ?

Is my speculation any ground ?
 

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Unfortunately, Tom has decided to remove all his posts from this thread so we can't consider his opinions on this topic.

I, for one, find this topic interesting and feel that there isn't a true answer yet. I do hope that someone takes the time to study this topic in detail and post their experiment/findings so that we can get to a true answer.

For the time being, we will continue to treat this as a black box. We fertilize in a certain way and we end up with little or no algae. We are not sure exactly why no algae is the result.

The focus seems to be on NH4 as triggering algae spores to germinate. In my experience, I have seen algae blooms when something happens that interferes with my plants' steady growth. So, for example, one time I ran out of CO2 and didn't notice for a few days. This impacted my plants' growth. As a result, uptake of NH4 dropped presumably thereby increasing its presence in the water column. If the hypothesis is correct, this caused the algae spores to germinate. Hence, my algae bloom.

This is all conjecture, of course.
 

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Art_Giacosa said:
In my experience, I have seen algae blooms when something happens that interferes with my plants' steady growth.
Same here. My CO2 ran low a couple weeks back and bam! Plant growth came to a screeching halt and BGA was all over the glosso the next morning.

Bumping my CO2 back up and increasing NO3 didn't do anything to the algae, it merely got the plants humming along again, which _stopped_ the algae from growing any further. It didn't get rid of it until I cut the lighting and killed it off. Hasn't come back.

The happy plants have some magic something they secrete into the water column that makes algae very unhappy. :D
 

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So what about a tank with some "happy plants" and some almost happy algae. That is my current situation. I have seen some tanks with prolific growth of both the plants simultaneous with an algae bloom. One will succeed eventually. In my case, I'm pretty sure some nutrients were limited which helped cause the bloom as well as too many organics. Its primarily a filimentous algae I am dealing with at the moment. I did notice a decline of some of my pearling and introduced some new Manzanita wood and replanted a few plants in the process. So the balance of the tank was changed. Do you think all these simultaneous changes might have been the trigger. Don't many believe a change in CO2 or other stable things will be one of the bloom "triggers"?

BTW, this is a very interesting thread.
 

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Gut Feeling

I feel we are all trying to achieve a common goal here - having a thriving, beautiful planted aquarium with little to no algae growth. The problem here is that each one of us may be using some of the same equipment and fertilization methods, or lighting intensity / duration, but there are several other factors like water chemistry and source, atmospheric differences, what we have on our arms when we stick them in the tank - etc, that can play a small (or large part) in how our gardens grow. These variables lead to a somewhat chaotic situation when trying to break down how or why our plants are growing or not growing. I am not a Chaotician nor am I a professional at any of this, but I do know we are trying to reproduce nature to some extent, and while at some fleeting moments we may feel as though we have achieved this glorious goal - we have in fact only managed to satisfy certain requirements at a certain moment that satisfy what our image of nature really is - but man is it fun! IMO
 

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Unfortunately, Tom has decided to remove all his posts from this thread so we can't consider his opinions on this topic
Why would he do that?

And HOW did he do that?
 
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