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Soil question for the Walstad tank

6814 Views 134 Replies 9 Participants Last post by  Oslo
Soil consisting of 60% peat moss, 40% composed bark fines and iron sulfate (50g/m3) additive, would it be ok for a Walstad tank even if it has a pH of 4? Or would it be beneficial to have a soil exclusively consisting of either peat moss or compressed bark fines?

Cheers,
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Found some more info about the top soil and it seems like some unknown animal manure have been added to this soil too. Interesting, when comparing ingredients between the soils we can see that the oslo soil (ammonium/nitrate PK = 21,8 mg/L - 217 mg/g - 754 mg/g) contain much more NPK nutrition than e.g. top soil (ammonium/nitrate PK = 19,81 mg/L - 21,7 mg/g - 100 mg/g). Numbers for the tiger soil would be = 13,23mg/L - 4,2 mg/g? - 1200 mg/g?. So, how would you choose between these? Very high amounts of Mg and Ca would maybe be a problem in the oslo soil? Top soil, oslo soil and tiger soil are all without peat and at least oslo and top soil have been produced by a hot composting process. Unfortunate, I do not know the amount of organic content in these soils.

Dwalstad mentioned forest or agricultural soil with 5-10% organic matter. I have access to both in some way, but how do I choose between the different types of e.g. forest soil. Would I choose the soil found in spruce woods, beech forest, pine forest, birch forest, flower meadow etc? A problem with agricultural soil found outside is that you have no idea what the farmer have used to fertilize it.
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Aren't you overthinking it a little? :) I would take the most "simple" soil I could find - ordinary potting mix with no wetting additives and call it a day. You could also do an experiment with a couple of bigger jars (~5-10l) and use different soil in each to see how they behave.. :)

I am a little puzzled by your question "Do you think aragonite sand mixed with lava stones would be sufficient as an ammonia removal system in a low tech tank without plants?". Are you planning a planted tank, or a tank without plants?
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I am a little puzzled by your question "Do you think aragonite sand mixed with lava stones would be sufficient as an ammonia removal system in a low tech tank without plants?". Are you planning a planted tank, or a tank without plants?
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Maybe both, I am curious of nature and would be interested in finding the golden balance between fish load and a low tech ammonia system without using a filter. E.g. would it be possible to keep ammonia levels under control in a fish tank without plants and filter by using only an airstone/power head combined with suitable gravel/stones that contain bacteria for converting ammonia to nitrate (denitrification). If yes, where would that line go? 2 guppies, 5 guppies, 10 guppies, 50 guppies? This would be highly dependent upon feeding protocol and water changes.
Aren't you overthinking it a little? :) I would take the most "simple" soil I could find - ordinary potting mix with no wetting additives and call it a day. You could also do an experiment with a couple of bigger jars (~5-10l) and use different soil in each to see how they behave.. :)

Yes, I guess I have to do that, do an experiment on my own as I am unable to choose a soil as they all have additives. I also get confused by all the different opinions at this and other sites.
I am a little puzzled by your question "Do you think aragonite sand mixed with lava stones would be sufficient as an ammonia removal system in a low tech tank without plants?". Are you planning a planted tank, or a tank without plants?

Maybe both, I am curious of nature and would be interested in finding the golden balance between fish load and a low tech ammonia system without using a filter. E.g. would it be possible to keep ammonia levels under control in a fish tank without plants and filter by using only an airstone/power head combined with suitable gravel/stones that contain bacteria for converting ammonia to nitrate (denitrification). If yes, where would that line go? 2 guppies, 5 guppies, 10 guppies, 50 guppies? This would be highly dependent upon feeding protocol and water changes.
Ammonia or nitrite won't be a problem, cichlid tanks run without any plants just fine. Nitrates have to be removed by water changes. Soil substrate in such case doesn't make much sense. I would expect that bare tank without a filter will take longer to "cycle", so I would start slow with a few fish specimen (whose health might get impacted negatively by initially elevated ammonia/nitrites, so don't get too attached to them🙂).
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Ammonia or nitrite won't be a problem, cichlid tanks run without any plants just fine. Nitrates have to be removed by water changes. Soil substrate in such case doesn't make much sense. I would expect that bare tank without a filter will take longer to "cycle", so I would start slow with a few fish specimen (whose health might get impacted negatively by initially elevated ammonia/nitrites, so don't get too attached to them🙂).
So, soil substrates like aragonite and lava stones will not be able to remove much ammonia from fish waste and food? Even if I have good water circulation and oxygen rich water?
So, soil substrates like aragonite and lava stones will not be able to remove much ammonia from fish waste and food? Even if I have good water circulation and oxygen rich water?
Once you have big enough colony of beneficial bacteria, ammonia and nitrite surely gets converted to nitrate. Nitrate must be removed either by plants, water changes or special filter media (ion exchange resins).
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Any of the forest soils will be fine. They will not need any pretreatment except for removal of any large pieces of organic matter to prevent floating. Use one of those and set your mind at ease.
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Ammonia or nitrite won't be a problem, cichlid tanks run without any plants just fine. Nitrates have to be removed by water changes. Soil substrate in such case doesn't make much sense. I would expect that bare tank without a filter will take longer to "cycle", so I would start slow with a few fish specimen (whose health might get impacted negatively by initially elevated ammonia/nitrites, so don't get too attached to them🙂).
Sure, if I go with aragonite gravel and lava stones I can combine it with floating plants and or moss to remove the nitrate. I also have concentrated NH3 to grow bacteria prior to adding fish and plants. I guess it will be important to have water circulation in lower levels of the tank with oxygen rich water to convert ammonia to nitrate (as this process is oxygen dependent) and maintain a healthy population of beneficial bacteria. An alternative to the walstad metod without nutrition rich soil/substrate, high CO2 production, and root plants.
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Any of the forest soils will be fine. They will not need any pretreatment except for removal of any large pieces of organic matter to prevent floating. Use one of those and set your mind at ease.
OK, how can I be sure that the soil from any kind of forest will contain a good nutritional mix for my water plants?

I have some soils that I would like to test out. One with pure peat moss (100% organic), one with some peat moss (>40 organic) and two without peat moss (44 and 45% organic). Want to check pH and ammonia levels etc. and grow potential (I have added some floating plants and a small root plant into each bottle - not shown in the picture). The two soils without peat moss are the "oslo" and the "tiger soil", containing different amount of ammonia etc. Would you choose the "oslo" soil which has the highest amounts of potassium, phosphate, and free ammonia/nitrate or "tiger" with less potassium, phosphate, and free ammonia/nitrate?

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You can always add a little root tabs in the soil if you worry about nutrient levels. I’d pick one that doesn’t go anaerobic in your test.the sand cap is a bit high though. It should only be 2 cm.
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An alternative to the walstad metod without nutrition rich soil/substrate, high CO2 production, and root plants.
That's like saying walking is an alternative to flying a plane. ;)
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So, I did set up two tanks on Friday. Any advise for a newbie? Do I need more light or a heater?
Water specs after thee days: pH= 7-7,5, KH = 6, GH = >10, NH4 = 0, NO2 = 0, NO3 = 0, temperature = room temp 20C
Tech specs: power head (5w) in the lower layers, small filter for water circulation in the upper layers, LED-60 RGB Light system, water tank = 30x30x35cm (31L)
The tank has about 1 inch (2,5cm) "rinsed" soil (seeding soil or tiger soil with one table spoon of bone meal) and 1 inch of fine (1-2mm) gravel on top. I filled the tank with many easy rapid growing plants. The tank is a "cocoon 3" (Cocoon 3 + LED 60 - Aquatic Nature), but I think the lighting is to weak? Not sure how much PAR, lumen, etc. I have in the tanks.

Should I buy this lamp? Chihiros WRGB II LED..


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To be honest (TBH), that's way more than I would ever pay for a light. But if it fits your budget, who am I to judge? In my experience, most of these LED lights are too intense for a tank where they will be on for over half a day (in order to incorporate a four-hour siesta), without much in the way of mechanical filtration and with enough fish poop to keep your plants growing. Too much intensity and they can become absolute algae factories.

So, sure. Personally, I'd buy something that either has a dimmer or is dimmable and a timer and with as close to 100% white lights as possible and leave it at that.
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To be honest (TBH), that's way more than I would ever pay for a light. But if it fits your budget, who am I to judge? In my experience, most of these LED lights are too intense for a tank where they will be on for over half a day (in order to incorporate a four-hour siesta), without much in the way of mechanical filtration and with enough fish poop to keep your plants growing. Too much intensity and they can become absolute algae factories.

So, sure. Personally, I'd buy something that either has a dimmer or is dimmable and a timer and with as close to 100% white lights as possible and leave it at that.
What about this one, its a cheaper LED (1400lm, 14W, 8000K, 400-700nm)


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What about this one, its a cheaper LED (1400lm, 14W, 8000K, 400-700nm)

Much more reasonable, IMO (in my opinion.)
Much more reasonable, IMO (in my opinion.)
What about heaters, should I invest in some? I have only 20C in my flat. Whats the optimal temperature for a walstad tank?
Twenty degrees Celsius is a little low for most tropical fish. If that's the ambient temperature in your home for any stretch of time, you'll need a heater. Twenty-four degrees Celsius is a safe median temperature for most tropical fish and plants. Breeding temperatures can trend higher. You need to research each species.
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Should I buy this lamp? Chihiros WRGB II LED..
Have a look on C-series lamps - Chihiros C361 LED light with dimmer (18 W, 1850 lm) - chihiros aquatic studio - I have the slightly shorter version for a couple of years on my similar cube aquarium (half the water volume) and it is great. Works with cheap generic automatic sunrise/sunset dimmers, provides plenty of light (I am running it about 80% max) and is water resistant (unlike other Chihiros lights). Just be aware that it heats a lot (like many LED lights though), so don't use it in confined spaces with lack of air/heat exchange.
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What about heaters, should I invest in some? I have only 20C in my flat. Whats the optimal temperature for a walstad tank?
You might get away without one. Water will get heated by water pumps, LED lights and if it doesn't sit in a draft, its temperature will be probably up to 4C above the ambient temperature. Just get a good thermometer (I prefer simple glass ones as they tend to show the same temperature across different manufacturers and models) and if it gets too chilly, buy a small heater (here again I have better experience with those using a simple analogue knob).
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