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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Today I noticed small fry in my tank only occupied by Stiphodon rutilaureus :yahoo:
Since the tank has been split up in two territories I was not really surprised but still very happy. Until I realized that really little is known about raising these critters, rumour has it that the fry migrate to the sea to grow up and return in an adult stage.
Question 1: the migration of the fry, is that really sure, or has it been an assumption?
If true than question 2: in what time frame should reserve for the "run to the ocean": when should I start to add salt and in what speed?
Question 3: any other advice is really welcome!!!!
Grtz,
Rob
 

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http://www.rainbowfish.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=163

more info.

in my opinion this is going to be a very hard task. I dont think anyone has bred them yet and it is a likely due to them needing marine conditions to "grow up". They are stated to have very small eggs... my question is, how big are the fry? if they are big enough to find in a decorated tank, are you sure they are their fry? usually if a species needs marine water you are very unlikely to see fry...

anyways, you may be on the verge of discovering the ways to breed/raise them... as stated i dont think many people have done so. if it were me, i would emulate amano shrimp breeding/raising and see where that got me, then use my findings as a jumping off point to make the process work for fish fry.

as far as your question about assuming their breeding, yes, it likely is only assumed. you also could have a totally different species, one that may not need marine water at all. who knows.

got any pics? where did you obtain the adults? any location/collection information?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hi,
I obtained the adults at a lfs and I am pretty sure it is Stiphodon rutilaureus, the question are the scientsists sure which is which because I found a lot of arguing between them. Btw, all Stiphodon are fresh water fish in the adult life.
I am definitely convinced that they are the offspring of the parents because they are alone in a tank and the plants were obtained from my "plant tank" containing no fish or shrimp. Foto's are impossible since it is even hard to see them with the naked eye.
The japanese guy does not really reveal any information so I don't consider him as a reliable source (no hard feelings). I think I will slowly bring the salinity of the water up in the course of a week, lets see what happens.
 

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Oh I meant photos of the adults. Although if you can barely see the fry, are you sure they aren't an invertebrate of some sort? I don't mean to keep asking, but we may as well get all possibilities out of the way. If you can barely see it, it could be something else entirely.

"Newer" fish to the hobby are usually those that get renamed and moved around on phylogenetic trees, so the fighting is normal. I only wanted to know/ensure that we're all talking about the same fish, hence me asking for a photo. Perhaps we could help make sure the basics are right before thinking about the raising fish that are known to be misID'd frequently.

GL.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi,
I am sure that it is fish fry because though small I can see a spine and it also more or less jumps through the water like the parents.
I don't have a photo yet because my camera has really problems with focusing (and I sold my old analog and trusty Leica :icon_hang) but this fish is the clone of my (fishy) father; http://users.edpnet.be/geekspace/IRG/stiphodon_rutilaureus_01.jpg. It is not similar but identical.
I don't mind that you are inquisitive, if it is a first it's better to document it well, right?
Gr,
Rob
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Before leaving the house today I did some home work on describing the tank conditions I keep my Stiphodons and how I retrieved the fry. Since this is a work in progress do not mind typos but questions and advice is always welcome. Pictures wil follow in day or two.



Housing of the group

A group of 6 Stiphodon rutilaureus composed of 2 males and 4 females is housed in a 60*30*40 cm tank containing 45 liter water.

Layout of the tank

The bottom of the tank is covered with gravel sized 3-5 mm. On both sides of the tank sheets of lime stone are stacked horizontally in such way that a three- to four- floored “apartment” building is formed, thus allowing two territories to be formed. Some plants are put in the middle area such as Hygrophila polysperma, Elodea densa and Lysimachia nummularia aurea. The plants are to provide some cover but are not allowed to dominate, finally scattered over the floor are some lime stone chips.

Technical aspects

The tank is situated in front of a window facing north east thus allowing sunlight from sunrise for about 90 minutes. Additional light comes from a single T8 (Philips 827) from 9 am til 9 pm.
The tank is filtered over a pot filter of 1.2 liter that is driven by a 330 L/h pump creating quite some current.
The temperature is kept at 25 degrees C.

Water treatment

Every other week 10 L of water is removed and replaced with 10 L cold (!) tap water. Based on a daily basis, plant fertilizer and chelated iron is added to stimulate plant and algae growth.
No additional CO2 is added.

Water Values

Water temperature: 25 degrees C
pH: 7.2 (measured with calibrated Milwaukee pH 600)
KH: 6.0 (measured by drop test from Sera in “sensitive mode”= double volume)

Maintenance of the tank

Algae are allowed to grow in the tank however, green algae are removed from the glass although not very thoroughly because I don't want to disturb the inhabitants. Hairy algae are removed if they cover more than 5 % of the tank.
Plants are trimmed if they grow higher than about half the height of the water level ( I have seen pictures of the natural habitat and these streams seem to be devoid of plant life and is flooded with light. Streams are in open grassland so little shade is provided.).

Feeding of the parental fish

The fish are always seen grazing on algae. Initially when I got them they stayed in a well planted 23 L tank together with some cherry shrimp and in that tank they seemed to enjoy the hairy algae growing on the back ground the best. They never touched the Vipachips from Sera but they loved the Wels-chips from the same manufacturer. That is until this day what they eat, however there is an article (I think it was in a German aquaristic magazine) that postulates that fish eating algae are actually also absorbing a substantial portion of biofilm. So there is a debate on how vegetarian these grazing fish really are. That is also why I try to do as little on the tank as possible, in order to obtain a (near) complete as possible spectrum of bacteria and aquatic plankton.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I do, I split he group in two and half of them remains in the parental tank, the other half I put in separate tank filled with water of the original tank. Today I have added two teaspoons of sea salt toe the salt water group and I noticed that the fish quickly moved to the saline area and remained there. The density is still slightly under 1.000 but I will add salt every day and observe their behaviour. This is really interesting stuff!
 

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Perhaps a more conservative approach would be to remove some portion of fry to a brackish tank, leave some where they are with the parents and some in a fw tank like the one they were hatched in but w.o the parents. (depending on the number of fry you have available)
-marrow
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
That is a very thorough aproach but unfortunately I have too little fry left, I am down to 5 survivors, all of which seem to be quite happy.
Here is one of the critters:


More pictures will follow.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
This morning I noticed a dramatic difference :shock: between the two groups. In the fresh water group, originally four, overnight two died where as in the sea water group all three are alive and are much more active than the fresh water survivors. Therefore I decided to cut the fresh water group and transfer the two survivors to sea water. After an initial (obviously) shock they joined the "navy" and are within 10 minutes as active as there sea water siblings. There is one more striking difference between the two groups; the sea water fry are at least 30 % bigger than their sea water siblings :yahoo: .
It looks that the observations of Kim Bell regarding Sicydium punctatum may very well also apply for Stiphodon sp. Today I am going to add some ea water straight from an established sea aquarium to a preliminary final density of 1.010. Hopefully I will get some marine micro life started, I also added some Liquifry No. 2, 2 drops to be exactly.
 

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You may think of a greenwater /rodifer culture. many reef sites offer them.

Sorry I second guessed you, but with 1 post at the time, I wanted to make sure to help a possible noob.

Keep us updated, please! :)

Liz
 
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