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sub optimal crypt heights?

2K views 6 replies 5 participants last post by  SusanTheSnail 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi folks, i know there's more than a handful of crypt enthusiasts here, and wondered if i could tap your brains.

I've had my tank going since June 2013. Most of the crypts are putting out new growth, its never been fast compared to other tanks I've had, but there is new sluggish growth for most species. A lot of them however have quite small leaves, and a lot of the really big crypts i.e usteriana, aponogetefolia, usteriana x walkerii are not doing particularly well at all. Even Balansae by some descriptions here is quite invasive has not done well. All of the leaves of these supposedly big crypts are very small, a few inches off the ground, or barely growing at all.

A pic of the tank is attached. substrate is miracle grow potting mix, eco complete cap, filtration is FX5, CO2 injected pH regulated at 6.7, off at night, i recently started dosing ferts again. I had a huge BBA problem, but have been using PMDD +phos and i use half the daily dosing. I find liquids easier vs the dry ferts. I also use about 1/3 of the phos since my phos tends to run 1+ppm without additives and was over 5 at one point when i was doing EI and having a BBA farm. There's a decent fish load of approx 45 rainbows in a 180. Lights are x3 kessils. I do 50% water changes of approx 50 Gallons RO/DI and another 40 gallons municiple water. TDS 170.

I don't know if there's any additional substrate tabs or anything else one would recommend? Even wendetii hasn't grown to the height it has for me in the past......

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks

Ryan

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For Example here's c usteriana clinging on by a thread...

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#2 ·
I am not familiar with the kind of light you use, but it gives the impression that there's rather a lot of light for these crypts.

Sometimes crypts take time to adjust to a new situation. As long as each new leaf grows to the same or a larger size as the older leaves i wouldn't worry too much. When each new leaf grows to a smaller final size than the older ones it's a sign that the plant is living on it's reserves and when this takes a longer time it is meaning that something is very wrong. It is then unable to grow (often unable to grow roots or obtain nutrients from the roots) and trying to hold on. Crypts can do this for considerable time so you have quite some time to change and experiment before they are really gone.
 
#5 ·
The crypts you mentioned can thrive naturally in soft water, but prefer the more alkaline range (pH 7.5-8.5). My C. aponogetifolia is 1.5m long (leaf tip, including the petiole) in my 45 gallon, and C. wendtiis reaching 8-12 inches. My water is slightly alkaline

Since you used miracle grow, had you removed the excess organics? From what I know those species prefer low organics (except the C. wendtii i think) and sandier soil (or soil with more inorganic particles), with low nitrogen in the water column (ive read this before mentioning that low nitrogen is best for them).

I dont dose my tank with liquid fertz or anything (including co2), just root tabs as crypts are more or less root feeders. Try adjusting the pH of the water or completely removing the co2 injection, unless you have plants that depend on it.
 
#6 · (Edited)
I have the same problem as Zimbo - suboptimal conditions for crypts which are stunted and I get lots of new baby leaves but as soon as the leaves get large they die and covered in a carpet algae and new baby leaves pop up.

I am surprised that you mention your waters are slightly alkaline Susan (I believe you - its just a surprise to me). I have convinced myself that my problem is not a lack of nutrients as I give them the same liquid ferts and tabs as my other plants which are thriving. I believe my problem is my hard high PH water PH8/KH8/GH10 which prevents the crypts from uptaking nutrients, ie they need an acidic substrate and softer lower Ph water. Its the only way I can undertaand my problem however I have noticed that rain water does not seem to fix my problem and my rain water is PH5 and Zero KH/GH? Its a mystery to me. I tend to add my hard water (a little bit) to my rain water to give the rain water something in terms of minerals, and sometimes add a little GH builder to the rain water for the same purpose, but so far no success. My present mix is 50% rain water and 50% hard water to try to make the water less hard and less alkaline for the cypts... but its not working.

So the alkaline experience you have mystifys me? Maybe its because you are 'slightly' alkaline. I used to live in a city with soft and slightly alkaline water Ph7.4 and I crypts would grow quite well - used to be easy for me to grow.
I am guessing your water is in the PH7.4-7.5 range, below PH8. If I recall PH8 is a logarithmic scale which means that at PH8 my water is 10x more alkaline than water at PH7 (ie a large difference).

I have always suspected that municipal water authorities make their water slightly alkaline to protect their pipes from acidic water, but I may be wrong there. In any case I have noticed that municipal waters degass just the same as naturally sourced waters (the rain and farm water I use) so their dissolved CO2 and O2 would seem no different as its a function of temperature rather than processing once they stabilise and balance with the atmosphere.

I have found that reducing the light intensity on my crypts has allowed them to recover somewhat, they look healthier under less light but I do not believe the problem is light. I think they are healthier in lower light, growing very slowly, because of their nutrient uptake problem. A restricted nutrient uptake (unlike my other plants which grow very healthy in the same tank under high light conditions) means the lower light allows a healthier outcome, slower growth.

But it is all still a mystery to me. Val, liliaeopsis, various mosses (fissedens, java, xmass moss), hair grass, anubias, ambulia all grow well in my tanks (basically everything I have except crypts). I use ADA soil and seachem ferts.

I have noticed a curious phenomena in my main tank this morning. I recently increased the photoperiod and reduced the light intensity, in order to reduce a green water problem I have due to high light conditions and liquid ferts which meant I had to lower my water level to get light to my plants and have noticed that the green water is no longer a problem (unfortunately my daphnia population has not recovered and probably won't until my green water comes back), and my brown diatom and green spot algae on the glass have gone, but now I am getting the sort of algae on plants that people complain of, something my tank has never experienced before - from the start I was blessed with almost no algae, but I have no fish only amphipods and daphnia and assorted micro fauna. Its possible that a no fish tank will have less algae problems than a fish tank (a store owner once told me that - he cleans his plant only tanks less than his fish tanks). I have returned my tank back to its original light regime and will see what happens.
 
#7 ·
My waters are around 7.4-7.8 and rarely reaches 8. You mentioned that you mix rainwater with your hardwater. I suspect that municipal water has other added chemicals to it that causes melt ? My water comes from groundwater and is filtered only from sandy particles.
For your case the high pH does restrict some elements from being absorbed easily. Ive read some article that mentions crypts preferring water with low nitrogen? And sandy soil with sufficient organics will work?
You could try using a dirted substrate than ADA to test. I have not tested ADA as the available stores offer them for a high price. I usually use a mix of loam, sand, vermicast and coco coir for both under and above water. Even my soils are hard and only become slightly acidic once it gets filled with rainwater for weeks. Ive read that ADA is acidic? I really suggest using soil that is gritty and sufficient in organics.
You also mentioned that vals, and other aroids like anubias grow well? I cant exactly deduce if its maybe allelopathy or competition?
I see you have some hopeful results when you reduced the light intensity. Most of my crypts grow emersed and i found some (unknown species) fared much better on highly shaded areas. You can try persisting that condition and see if they budge.

What crypt species you have anyway? These are my crypts that I grow in loamy soil:
C. wendtii green and bronze, C. albida, C. parva, C. affinis. I use sandier mixes with these: unknown crypt, C. aponogetifolia. I also use it for C. parva and C wendtii and i noticed a significant boost in growth
 
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