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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all, I'm writing cuz i got a long long problem that has been occuring and i need your help. Here are the symptoms, I'm hoping someone has had this problem and knows how to solve it:

Not all fish are showing signs of stress. It's more like 1 at a time. one fish will just hang out near the surface of the water and be absolutely still and stay in one place...then a few days later, he will die....and then another one does this....and it keeps going on. my malaysian trumpet snails are all dying and their empty shells are on top of the substrate. when i crush the pond snails shells, they are extremely soft. i have a 40 gallon tank with only 20 fish in there, so the bioload should be real small. i got a eheim ecco filter 2231 filled with lava rock and filter floss, my ph from tap is 8.0, kh and gh is 10.. i add diy co2 bottle. my lighting is a coralife 2 x 65 watt.

if there is anything else you would like to know, let me know.

is it lack of oxygen? too much nitrates or ammonia? HELP PLEASE!
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Hi all, I'm writing cuz i got a long long problem that has been occuring and i need your help. Here are the symptoms, I'm hoping someone has had this problem and knows how to solve it:

Not all fish are showing signs of stress. It's more like 1 at a time. one fish will just hang out near the surface of the water and be absolutely still and stay in one place...then a few days later, he will die....and then another one does this....and it keeps going on. my malaysian trumpet snails are all dying and their empty shells are on top of the substrate. when i crush the pond snails shells, they are extremely soft. i have a 40 gallon tank with only 20 fish in there, so the bioload should be real small. i got a eheim ecco filter 2231 filled with lava rock and filter floss, my ph from tap is 8.0, kh and gh is 10.. i add diy co2 bottle. my lighting is a coralife 2 x 65 watt.

if there is anything else you would like to know, let me know.

is it lack of oxygen? too much nitrates or ammonia? HELP PLEASE!
 

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What kind of fish do you have? How long have you had them in the tank?

What are your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings in the tank?

When you got the fish, were they extremely colourful and vibrant looking?
 

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Your description is very non-specific. Do the fish die with their jaws wide open? I've read that is a consistent sign that they died of suffocation, but I'm not sure that they always show that symptom.

Do the fish die at night, or during the day?

Have you had any leaks of the yeast mixture into the tank?

Are the plants growing well?

Have you checked the circulation? Is the filter running well?

20 fish in a 40 gallon tank is not a real small bioload. Depending on the size and nature of the fish and the amount you feed it could be a high bioload. That's about the highest load I keep. I like low bioloads.. My 55 gallon tank has 9 fish. My 150 has 14 fish.


Roger Miller
 

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If the snail shells are soft, could that be a sign of Ca deficiency?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Hi Thanks for coming to my aide. I will try to answer as much as I can.

This tank has been running for 6 months. In the beginning it was just fine. then 1 month ago, the problems started slowly happening...

Some plants grow extremely well, like my java ferns, green hygro and riccia which is lush and large and spreads like wildfire...a lot of the riccia is actually covering the top of the tank....could this prevent air exchange of oxygen? my plants only pearl near the end of the day....

no yeast mixture into the tank. i just cleaned out my filter.

fish die...ummm..i can't tell day or night cuz i been real busy and this happens like once in awhile.like maybe 1 fish dies a week, and so far i've had 3 fish die...

the reason why i thought my bioload was small was cuz in the same tank, before i had plants, i kept 40 fish in the tank (my lfs told me 1 inch per gallon) ...

also i don't feed them much...they graze on brown algae and their stomachs look normal (not starving)



Another thing i should add is i do 50% weekly water changes and the day after, my plants pearl like crazy...but after a few days, the tank goes bad again....

i do add "Big al's water conditioner" and i know my tap water company uses chloramines...could it be that the conditioner is not good enough and the chloramines are harming my fish? do chloramines in the water kill snails?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
i should also add that ghost shrimp have never lived for more than a three days in my tank....what does this all mean?
 

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I just visited Big Al's on line and checked out "Big Al's All-Purpose Water Conditioner." I don't know what the label says, but none of the information they provide on line even suggests that it might be a dechlorinator. Certainly it doesn't say that it is useful for chloramine. It says it contains aloe vera and its good for healing injuries.

Read the label. Maybe that's your problem.


Roger Miller
 

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that conditioner... isn't it just something that promotes healthy slime coat production or something? i agree with roger... but still... i dunno, try leaving your water out for a while before you change it, or get a small bottle of a dechlorinator. but... snail shells shouldn't be soft because of that (i don't think so at least...)
 

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quote:

Originally posted by Algae Grower:
Some plants grow extremely well, like my java ferns, green hygro and riccia which is lush and large and spreads like wildfire...a lot of the riccia is actually covering the top of the tank....could this prevent air exchange of oxygen? my plants only pearl near the end of the day....
Even though they only perling at the end of the day, they are still photosynthesising and providing O2 to the tank during the day, you may have problems at night though with excess CO2 with so many fish if you don't have good gas exchange in the tank.

quote:

fish die...ummm..i can't tell day or night cuz i been real busy and this happens like once in awhile.like maybe 1 fish dies a week, and so far i've had 3 fish die...
This could be from poor genetic stocks depending on the species, old age, pH instability, prolonged stress, hormone usage by breeders, aggression in the tank picking off one fish at a time and many more unknown reasons why a fish could die that's out of your control. Without more information or a biopsy it will be extemely difficult to say why they are dieing on you. What kind of fish do you have? What are you water readings?

quote:

the reason why i thought my bioload was small was cuz in the same tank, before i had plants, i kept 40 fish in the tank (my lfs told me 1 inch per gallon) ...
Take this rule and toss it out the window! It's very decieving and misused so much that it's meaningless. The amount of fish you can keep in your tank is much more complicated then just the potential volume of water a tank can hold. A 40Gal tank wont hold 40Gal of water once you take into consideration displacement from substrate and decorations. The amount of fish you can have in a tank requires more consideration of surface area (ability foro gas exchange) the type of filtration you are using, the adult size of the fish, the temperment of the fish in question, etc..

quote:

Originally posted by jpmtotoro:
...snail shells shouldn't be soft because of that (i don't think so at least...)
There could be more then one problem in the tank.
 

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quote:

quote:

the reason why i thought my bioload was small was cuz in the same tank, before i had plants, i kept 40 fish in the tank (my lfs told me 1 inch per gallon) ...
Take this rule and toss it out the window! It's very decieving and misused so much that it's meaningless. The amount of fish you can keep in your tank is much more complicated then just the potential volume of water a tank can hold.
I agree that it should be tossed. More importantly, we shouldn't even be asking how many fish a tank *can* hold. We should be asking how many fish a tank *should" hold. I think the number and size of fish that a tank should hold for long term good health and maintenance is a lot lower than the number and size of fish that a tank can hold.

The old "X inches of fish per gallon of aquarium" is a self-serving rule of thumb used by fish stores to sell the largest number of fish possible to people who don't know enough to ask the right questions.

Roger Miller
 

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Discussion Starter #12
on the label, it says that it removes chlorine and chloramine and also has aloe vera. I called Bigals' and they said that it's basically the aquarium pharmeceutical's product with a bigal's label (they have a contract together). And on the directions, it says, if you need to remove chloramine, use double the dosage as if you had chlorine.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
PS, i just did another water change and my fish are fine now...and now I'm pretty sure that my chloramine levels are fine because i didn't add dechlorinator and the fish are still alive... do water plants add more chloramines during the summer or winter? my guess is summer.. perhaps i need to do water changes more often than once a week.....

is it possible that fertilizers that i used to dose were in toxic quantities? I used to dose a fertilizer called lilymiller vitamin b1 plant starter from the gardening section of home depot because it contained chelated iron, zinc, and manganese, and copper.


anyways, thank you all for your input, I'm learning a lot more than I expected to learn and it's [email protected]!
 

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which fish are dying? I know you have lots of guppies, mollies and a few small (last I saw) angels. Could be the angels are mauling the guppies.

Copper is very bad for snails and shrimp and I've found it kills hornwort really well too. I'd stop using that fertilizer if it has much copper in it. Pond snail shells are supposed to be thin and weak, they're the yugos of the snail world. With our hard water I seriously doubt you're short on calcium. Since everyone seems happier after a water change, that suggests something is accumulating in the water and it's not coming from the tap, so prolly not chloramine. I'd crank up the filter and add some activated carbon to soak up random nasties.

If the only fish that are dying are mollies, you might have not enough salt in the water. Mollies like it kind of brakish.

You might try feeding more too, planted tanks are pretty forgiving about overfeeding.
 
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