Welcome to APC

I've never used this brand of light, but I've heard that you get what you pay for with these lights (quality, longevity).

A 4x65 watt fixture is way to much light for a 29G tank and changing out the bulbs everyday will be a PITA. This is just extra work that you don't need to deal with and is not needed.

I would go with your original plan and get a Coralife fixture. They are dependable and will last. They may be a little more expensive, but in the long run you will come out cheaper.

This store always has good deals on Coralife fixtures... http://www.marineandreef.com/shoppro/power_aqualight_fresh.html

 

I didn't mean that I'd actually remove and replace each bulb througout the day... I meant that I'd run each bulb on a seperate timer, and have different intensities throughout the day (5500k in the morning, 5500k and 6700k, 6700k and 7100k, 7100k and actinic, actinic and moonlights, moonlights, darkness, repeat.... or something like that... max of 2 bulbs on at a time (just under 5wpg for most of the day, but intensities change to simulate high noon)). Does that make sense? Would that work well? Am I crazy?

I kinda want to include an actinic bulb, because I heard that they can be beneficial for plants, but I don't think I'd need to run it all day.

I hear ya on ya get wat ya pay for, and I thought the same exact thing. That's why I'm wondering if anybody had any actual experience with it, because I might be able to save myself some money here

Thanks for the reply

 

Why oh why, would you want 2 fixtures ? 260 watts over a 29g is almost 9 wpg. That's so much overkill it's unreal. Way more then you need and will just cause unneeded issues. You'l be walking a very thin tightrope algae wise.

Staggering the bilb timings is fine but it's still way more light then you'll ever realistically.

Why not use the same money to buy 1 decent fixture. Anything that gives you 90-120 watts would be ideal and allow you to grow pretty much anything with far more room for error with nutrients,Co2 etc.

Wouldn't bother with actinic bulbs either, no benefit at all.

Moonlights are really just for night time viewing no real benefits to be gained, if you can save a few bucks forget about them too.

 

I wouldn't have all of the lights on at a time...just 2 at the most, so it wouldn't really be 9wpg.

I kinda wanted to create a sunrise-full sun-sunset type deal. Have the lights be different intensities throughout the day... have the sun rise on one side of the tank and set on the other.

I'd also like to plan ahead... I'm probably going to be doing a 20 or 29 gallon reef sometime in the next few years, and doing a bigger planted tank (probably 75 gal), so I could use the same fixtures for lights for the reef, and just change bulbs (an' yea, reefs need a lot more light... like 10+ wpg...I'd still be limiting myself by going with PC over a reef, MH would be better).

Are you saying that there's something wrong with the fixture? If there's anything wrong with the fixture that would cause any major problems, I'll drop this whole idea an' go with a coralife fixture. I really don't want any electrical problems.

Thanks

 

I'm not sure if you could even do staggered timing with that fixture without heavy modifications of it's internals. What are the dimensions of your 29g?

 

Dimmensions are 30x18x12... standard 29...

Yea, I know the lights will hang over the edges a bit, but the mouting thing is in the middle of the light, so it should be good... if not, I can always mod it...

Yea, I know I'll probably have to do some modding of the internals... run timers in place of switches... yep, I know how to do that. I build custom computers and do a lot of custom eletronic stuff

 

If you really want this fixture, I'd run it with just two of the bulbs and even stagger those so that the two are only on part of the light period. Two of them is already giving you 4.5wpg! You will get no benefit whatsoever from using all 260w, staggered or not and will quickly have a major problem on your hands.

You mention that you may save enough money for a CO2 system. With this much light (even with only two of them on) you will *have* to have CO2... it is not an option or a luxury.

Same for ferts; you will need to make sure you have enough of all the required nutrients for the plants.

 

And welcome to APC!

 

have you thought about getting one fixture, and custom installing some blue leds to come on @ "lights out" instead?

 

I have the Odyssea CF dual bulb 36" version (192W with coralife 6700K bulbs) of this light and so far it's performing well. It has a couple of built in fans (one is starting to make some noise at startup but they appear to be standard fans that Frys sells). The biggest difference between this light and the Coralife, is that the Odyssea light has only 1 power switch and 1 power cord for both lights. The second switch is for the blue led night lights. The Coralife has 2 switches and cords so that you could put each bulb on seperate timers. Quality is just average and only time will tell about the longetivity.

Mike

 

I would agree that is very overkill for lighting but if you want to do it and are plannign for something else, then go for it.

As for modding, should be very simple providing the fixture 1 ballast per bulb. You could easily add a second cord/switch for light control but if there is only 1 ballast for 2 bulbs, you are more limited as the only way to seperate the lights is to use some sort of a relay and timer inline. Not a great option. My guess based on who cheap the light is, ther eis only one ballast for both bulbs....a ballast for 2x65watts is much cheaper than 2 seperate 65watt ballasts

 

I was referring to going with a couple DIY yeast mixes v. compressed... I know that I NEED CO2 with that much light. And thanks for the warm welcome

I thought about custom installing a few LEDs, but that makes more work, and then I'll need a transformer to take 110VAC down to 5VDC for them. I'd do it in a computer (there's already 5VDC lines), but I'd rather not mess with it in light fixtures when it isn't really that much more expensive to get them already in there for me.

So you guys think I should run 1 65w bulb all day and use the other (maybe higher temp?) for a few hours for high noon? Or stagger 2 bulbs (8 hours each, 2nd turns on 2 hours before the 1st off (makes a 4 hour high noon))? 4.5wpg would be too much light to run all day, and should only be 4.5wpg for high noon?

I think I'm a bit confused on the usage of the term wpg. Yea, I know it's watts per gallon, but is it referring to total wattage, high noon wattage, average wattage, or what?

Thanks

 

hell without reading half the other dudes posts i say go for it!!!!! i did 8wpg once for my 55 gal tank and i got some of the best growth i ever had. though the tank was basically all fast growing stem plants and i dumped a hell of a lot of co2 into the water and ferts. if your up for a challenge then get the lighting. on the other hand if you do get the lights and then decide that its too much you can always dim the lights down by using less bulbs and then u still have the fixture for the future for another tank!!

also, i have tried lighting from jebo before (same company as this fixture of yours) and its great stuff, only thing that sucked was their reflectors. but good bite for buck IMO.

doooooo iiiiiiiiitttttttt

 

I have one of these fixtures so here goes:

The fans they include in the fixture are crap and I actually took them out since they made more noise than anything I had on my tank ( I had an over the back overflow at the time too)

The actinic is not really actinic, just blue in color.

There is just one power cord so you cannot put the moonlights and daylights on separate timers. These are just turned on and off via manual switches.

Without some wiring magic your idea of having one bulb on in the morning and the other bulb on later in the day is impossible with this fixure. you'd have to add another power cord or at least another switch to control the bulbs separately.

A funny sidenote is that I only wanted 65W over my 25 gallon for its break in period so i took one bulb out. The fixture was lit at the time and it stayed lit, but didn't come back on in the morning. I figured out that it needed both bulbs to fire properly so I put the bulb back in. so I still have 130W over my poor 25 gallon algea tank(clearing up).

Otherwise I actually like the fixture itself. Looks just like the coralife it is copying and I haven't had heat problems even with the fans missing. The way it sits on the tank (with the mounting legs) is a bit retarded as I can barely fit the glass lid in there anymore. This may be a problem with all mounting legs however. oh yeah, the power cord itself is a little short for my taste. hope this helps!

You could always build yourself a canopy and install two independently controlled 1x55/65W lights from AH supply (http://www.ahsupply.com/36-55w.htm
That would give you juust what you need.

Cheers

 

one more thing. the moonlights are more like blue spotlights. Not too happy with them.

I use blue cold cathode tubes used in computer cases for a realistic looking moonlight. I bought mine from Xoxide, cheap too. http://www.xoxide.com/coldcathodes.html The power inverter they sell with their kits can take two tubes so get 1 or 2 12" tubes and away you go. You just need to get a 3-12v dc wall adapter from WalMart, wire it to the cold cathode power inverter and you are in business.

I got a variable voltage adapter (from Walmart too) which lets you switch from 3 to 6 or 9 or 12v whenever you want. this changes the brightness from the tubes so you can fine tune it to your tastes ( I use 6 or 9v if you are wondering).

You can't use a dimmer on the tubes like you can with LED's, but then again you couldn't with the aqua traders fixture anyway.

Cheers again

 

Thanks for the replies

Okay, as long as I know that the wiring in the jebo fixtures is fine and that they're electrically sound and won't burn down my house, I think I'll go with them.

I plan on ripping apart the jebo fixtures and building timers into them (series-parallel circut). Loud fans probably won't be a problem (I've got LOUD/high velocity fans in my computer! As far as I know, I hold the world record for the biggest overclock (percentage wise, atleast) with air (2.4GHz P4 @ 3.575GHz... stable at 3.24GHz tho)), so I'm used to tuning out fan noise. But if the fans are a problem, I could either scrap them, or throw in some extra quiet fans that I've got layin' round...

The reason yer fixture wouldn't run with one bulb out is because the 2 bulbs are wired in a series circut (I'm assuming they are, atleast... as far as I know, they usually are, and it explains your problem, so I'm just going to assume that they ARE wired in a series circut). With a series circut, the power goes through everything, and there are no alternate paths unless something shorts. On 110VAC, a series circut would go like this -

+|- light - light +|-

So if ya pull out one light, the circut is broken, and nothing runs.

I think I'm going to go with LED's... CCFL's take up too much space in the fixture (heck, they're as big around as PC's) , and they're too bright, imo. I could easily pull the CCFL's out of my computer, but LED's work fine.

I think I'll skip out on the kit from AH supply... more expensive than the Jebo fixtures

The coralife fixture is wired in a series-parallel circut apperantly... there's seperate switches for each bulb, and for the moonlights (total of 3 switches, one power cord). That's kinda where I got my idea for wiring it like I showed above, but with timers in the circut.

Thanks for the help, everybody! Any other comments/suggestons would be greatly appreciated

 

Okay, I talked to an electrician d00d, an' he said that I'll have to pull apart the fixture and wire in plugs for each ballast. But there's only one ballast in the Jebo fixture, so I won't be able to do that... I'd have to get the Coralife fixtures that have 2 ballasts...

I might have to get more ballasts...

I dunno...I guess I'm back to square one with the lights, unless I just get one fixture, or can find a cheap fixture with 2 ballasts...

Thanks everybody

 

Make it easy on yourself! I never understood the problem with high light until I tried it. Why on earth would you NEED CO2?? - why was a high light tank harder to balance? Don't you just get tremendous growth ??? Isn't this closer to actual lighting conditions in nature???? All I ever wanted was a cool 'fish tank' like the ones in the stupid aquascaping contests. I was actually staying away from saltwater because this must be simpler, right?

After growing huge quantities of more varieties of algae than I knew existed and buying 6 different test kits, spending 100's of hours looking at posts, joining a local plant club, trying to understand the not-so-straightforward EI method, etc., tinkering with 10 different dry fert ratios, giving up on DIY CO2, almost killing all my fish, installing a compressed CO2 system, and modifying my DIY light fixture a couple of times the algae is finally starting to taper off and some of my plants are even coming back. I think I'm even starting to see better growth at 4 wpg than I did at 2 wpg now that there are a few leaves without algae on them . Some of my vals are even starting to grow straight again. Not to say that it wasn't fun -- 'half the fun is getting there', you know.

My advice as a not-so-newbie anymore:
Go with AH supply fixtures. A suitable box is simple to make, even for someone like me. The reflectors make all the difference. Stick with 2 ballasts and 2 lights. I'd shoot for 2 wpg for 3 hours, 4wpg for 4 hours, and 2 wpg for 3 hours +/-. Spend more the 1st time for quality. In the end you will spend less and be much less frustrated. Buy one of their enclosures if you want.

Get pressurized CO2 and run it up to 30-35 ppm. Buy an electronic pH meter since its the only way to get any kind of accuracy at all. Absolutely do not let your NO3 and PO4 get too low. I threw up 4 wpg without paying attention to this and all the plants in my 46 turned YELLOW. Next, they shed about 1/2 of their leaves. Most of my lush carpet of dwarf sag died in about a week. Next, green spot algae took over what was left. Nice improvement huh?

Keep a log. Without it you'll be throwing random solutions at problems and won't remember what worked and what didn't.

Come up with a fert program that you can stick with. I'm eventually aiming at a home-mix brew that gets automatically dosed on a daily basis, assuming I get the mix right someday. Most of all have fun. Let me know what you end up going with.

 

I have the 48 inch model (4x65) and it works nice. The fan is a little noisy but not too bad at all. Mine has 3 switches (1 for each bank of lights and 1 for moonlights). The moonlights are crap. 1 power cord makes them useless anyway. Not to difficult to rewire to add a second or third cord. I did find out that 260 watts of pc over a 75 gallon isn't a good idea to start a tank off with.

A cpl of links for rewiring your fixture.

http://216.235.242.50/forums/showthread.php?mode=hybrid&t=12111
http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=69639&

P.S. My actinic blue were true actinic bulbs. White when not lit but blue when fired up.

 

I have read from a couple of other users of Aqua Traders lighting equipment of failed, sparking and catching on fire fixtures. I cannot remember off-hand if it was a particular fixture, or if it is just inherent with their cheap wiring and components.

I also remember that there was literally no customer support for these people. They would not answer calls, e-mails or return messages.

Check out "vendor experiences" on Reef Central. Do a search on Aquatraders and you will see what I am talking about.

 

A posting on a sunrise.sunset simulation... basic but food for thought.

http://www.thekrib.com/Lights/sunset.html

 

I can comment somehwhat on the fixture itself. I have one with 4 - 6500K bulbs. Within one week of use, the plastic lens is so distorted from the heat of the bulbs that it needs replaced, the actual light output, compared virtually side by side to 3 shoplight fixtures (6 X 40watt) is substantially lower than the shoplight fixtures due to the very poor reflector design.

But then again, I only paid $30 bucks for the thing and it looks much nicer than 3 shoplight fixtures sitting on a 75, so I figure I can use it when I have company coming

Really though, I would suggest AH Supply, I have several of their 65watt kits and 2 of them using the AH reflectors easily match the light output of the larger Jebo and over a 30, you're fish would need an SPF 30 sunblock.

 

I think the fixture is ok...but the seller that you are buying it from (aquatraders) is bad. Contacting them is very difficult and the service you get is very horrible. I would suggest that you buy from another vender.

 

Thanks for all the help and links, guys... GREATLY APPRECIATED

I'll have a look thru all of them in a bit... I've gotta go... was just droppin' by to see what was goin' on fer a few minutes...

I haven't had a problem with getting a hold of aquatraders... I was going to order a UV sterilizer from them but they were out of stock... I called them, an' they said that they weren't carrying them anymore

 

Also have read of horrible thoughts of aquatraders