[helgymatt]

Re: Why live with a wood burning stove?

OK, YOU WIN! CO2 controllers are the best thing ever invented. Keep using yours, and I'll keep using my wood burning stove, because it works wonderfully!

Oh BTW, I have a pH meter that I have tested my water throughout the period of the photoperiod. pH drops to 6.3 in about 2 hrs after the CO2 turns on and doesn't move off that point the whole day!

Now please tell me how a CO2 controller would benefit me!!!

 

[helgymatt]

Re: Why live with a wood burning stove?

My pH starts at 7.3 and goes to 6.3. Please tell me what is wrong with a 10x pH change! If the CO2 starts out at 2-5ppm and you go to 20-35 that is a 10x change. Provide some evidence this is bad, and I'll start to listen.

Oh by the way...I have already explained all of this to you!

This was our discussion before. Your comment in italics
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray-the-pilot
A whole pH unit! I would be worried about that not because of the change in pH but because this corresponds to a 10 fold increase in CO2. CO2 levels ranging from 50 - 5 seem unhealthy but I guess Angelfish can take it.

Yes a ten fold increase, but I don't see if really meaning much. pH is a direct relationship between KH and pH. Look at this chart.
http://freshwateraquariumplants.com/carbondioxidechart.html
My KH is about 3. At pH 7.2 I have about 5 ppm CO2 - My pH drops to 6.3 which means my CO2 is then between 35-56 ppm. - which explains why my drop checker is yellow/green and not green (drop checkers are green at ~25-30ppm

What is the basis for saying this is unhealthy until you have tried it and know that the fish can tolerate it? My fish and plants are perfectly healthy.

 

[helgymatt]

Re: Please Read This

Thank you everyone for your posts!

I would like to reply to everyone and will try to do so but can you follow some rules about posting.

If you want to call me an idiot please link your post with my original post. That way I know you are talking to me.

If you want to comment on something that someone else says link to their post and I will ignore that post.

When the nest gets so deep that it doesn't appear on your screen it is better to start a new post and reference what you are commenting on.

BTW I expect that any new technology will meet with some resistance and I do not think this group is really too difficult.

Peace RTP

I don't get what is so complicated here...You ask a question and get a response.

I actaully am beginning to think you are getting more enjoyment with people calling you an idiot. What are you trying to prove!!! Please tell us all. Everyone is having success, success, success, without CO2 controllers. And yes, people are having success with them. CO2 controllers are not new technology at all! IF ANYTHING can solve this rediculous back and forth it is that the CO2 controller is a luxury, not a necessity.

But, I'm sure the dead horse will continue to be beaten, and beaten, and beaten, and beaten.

 

[helgymatt]

Re: Why live with a wood burning stove?

Well first let me point out that if you assume that the original level was 2-5 then your estimate of the 10x increase is 20-50 not 20-35. Also how do you know that the original level was 2-5?
Since you do not have a controlled system, how do you know that there are not places in your tank where the CO2 is higher still?

Look I'm not telling you that your fish are going to die or your plants will wilt. What I'm saying is that without control over your tank you don't know what is going on and it can be way out of control before you know it.

YOU DON'T GET IT.

LOOK at the table I liked you to! The KH is THREE. LOOK!

There is variation, not every KH test kit and pH meter are perfectly precise. That is why the table gives you a range. And since we know CO2 is not the same in all areas of the tank, how are you controling your tank with just one pH meter (co2 controller)?...hmmm. How do you know you don't have areas in your tank with higher CO2!

But, my tank, as you say, is WAY out of control. If your saying that your CO2 controller is a safeguard against any kind of problems, that is just wrong. Your CO2 controller can malfuntion just as easily, probably more easily, as my needle valve.

 

[helgymatt]

Re: Please Read This

Yes you are right but I cannot find them easily and they are not referenced in order.

Find what easily?

If you are referring to the KH/PH table then...
The link is in my post where you asked me about my pH and CO2, just a page back. Here it is for a third time.

http://freshwateraquariumplants.com/carbondioxidechart.html

 

[helgymatt]

Re: Why live with a wood burning stove?

BTW I'm not trying for a garden with my tank. My tank is a biotype and I want it to look like a natural setting.

What does this have to do with anything? Many gardens are meant, and do, look very natural.

 

[helgymatt]

Re: Why live with a wood burning stove?

The temp in my house doesn't change much because I have a temp controller. Just like your temp. controller in your tank.

My wood burning stove doesn't have a controller so the temp is all over the place. Near the stove it is hot, near the window it is cold.

I don't need 10 temp controllers to control the temperature in one room I only need one.

A CO2 controller works the same way.

You know that pH measurement doesn't give you an accurate estimate of your CO2 level. How do you know that pH 7.3 in your tank is not 15 ppm?

If you understand what a CO2 controller does, you will know it is just a pH meter!

And why do you think everyones CO2 is all over the place? If the pH is stable, the CO2 is stable. It is a DIRECT relationship!!!! Learn a little bit about CO2 before you start demanding everyone use a CO2 controller. All it is is a pH probe that controls how much CO2 goes into the tank.

I already asked what benefit a pH controller would do for me, if my pH stays steady all day without one, but you failed to answer that.

Also, did you even look at the chart I linked you two?

 

[helgymatt]

Re: Why live with a wood burning stove?

I want to first say that I appologize for any inapporpriate comments I made.

Ray, I could not help but look through all of the threads you have started.
In all of them that mention anything about CO2, you seem to bring up the controller issue time after time. Everytime, you get the same response....that they are not an essential tool to be sucessful with a planted tank. Please accept this fact, and understand why others choose not to use them. I understand how they work and how they can be useful, and I have no problem with anyone using one. I do have a problem when you argue that "no system should be without one, and that there is no sence of control without one". This is nonsence. There are many ways to reach the same result and we happen to have two different methods of doing so. BOTH work! Fair enough?