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Re: Why live with a wood burning stove?

The question is, do you feel your way is the correct way and the way others should see it as? That is the impression I am getting.

What is really puzzling you?

I think each system is as different as the area one lives. And if a person found a system that works for them, then kudos to them. Trying to fix that which is not broken is pointless. As it is pointless trying to make someone see the proverbial light.

So I am asking, what are you trying to get across? are we wrong and you are correct?
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Re: Why live with a wood burning stove?

OK, YOU WIN! CO2 controllers are the best thing ever invented. Keep using yours, and I'll keep using my wood burning stove, because it works wonderfully!

Oh BTW, I have a pH meter that I have tested my water throughout the period of the photoperiod. pH drops to 6.3 in about 2 hrs after the CO2 turns on and doesn't move off that point the whole day!

Now please tell me how a CO2 controller would benefit me!!!
I love you and I cannot win since this is not a contest!

You didn't say what the pH was at the start? I'd be curious how much of a pH change you have. As a rule of thumb 1 pH unit = a 10x change in CO2.
 

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Re: Why live with a wood burning stove?

My pH starts at 7.3 and goes to 6.3. Please tell me what is wrong with a 10x pH change! If the CO2 starts out at 2-5ppm and you go to 20-35 that is a 10x change. Provide some evidence this is bad, and I'll start to listen.

Oh by the way...I have already explained all of this to you!

This was our discussion before. Your comment in italics
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray-the-pilot
A whole pH unit! I would be worried about that not because of the change in pH but because this corresponds to a 10 fold increase in CO2. CO2 levels ranging from 50 - 5 seem unhealthy but I guess Angelfish can take it.

Yes a ten fold increase, but I don't see if really meaning much. pH is a direct relationship between KH and pH. Look at this chart.
http://freshwateraquariumplants.com/carbondioxidechart.html
My KH is about 3. At pH 7.2 I have about 5 ppm CO2 - My pH drops to 6.3 which means my CO2 is then between 35-56 ppm. - which explains why my drop checker is yellow/green and not green (drop checkers are green at ~25-30ppm

What is the basis for saying this is unhealthy until you have tried it and know that the fish can tolerate it? My fish and plants are perfectly healthy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Please Read This

Thank you everyone for your posts!

I would like to reply to everyone and will try to do so but can you follow some rules about posting.

If you want to call me an idiot please link your post with my original post. That way I know you are talking to me.

If you want to comment on something that someone else says link to their post and I will ignore that post.

When the nest gets so deep that it doesn't appear on your screen it is better to start a new post and reference what you are commenting on.

BTW I expect that any new technology will meet with some resistance and I do not think this group is really too difficult.

Peace RTP
 

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Re: Why live with a wood burning stove?

How about some pictures of those great tanks Ray? I mean, you believe deeply in your theories. There must be a reason why. I'd love to see your success.
 

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Re: Please Read This

Thank you everyone for your posts!

I would like to reply to everyone and will try to do so but can you follow some rules about posting.

If you want to call me an idiot please link your post with my original post. That way I know you are talking to me.

If you want to comment on something that someone else says link to their post and I will ignore that post.

When the nest gets so deep that it doesn't appear on your screen it is better to start a new post and reference what you are commenting on.

BTW I expect that any new technology will meet with some resistance and I do not think this group is really too difficult.

Peace RTP
I don't get what is so complicated here...You ask a question and get a response.

I actaully am beginning to think you are getting more enjoyment with people calling you an idiot. What are you trying to prove!!! Please tell us all. Everyone is having success, success, success, without CO2 controllers. And yes, people are having success with them. CO2 controllers are not new technology at all! IF ANYTHING can solve this rediculous back and forth it is that the CO2 controller is a luxury, not a necessity.

But, I'm sure the dead horse will continue to be beaten, and beaten, and beaten, and beaten.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Re: Why live with a wood burning stove?

My pH starts at 7.3 and goes to 6.3. Please tell me what is wrong with a 10x pH change! If the CO2 starts out at 2-5ppm and you go to 20-35 that is a 10x change. Provide some evidence this is bad, and I'll start to listen.
Well first let me point out that if you assume that the original level was 2-5 then your estimate of the 10x increase is 20-50 not 20-35. Also how do you know that the original level was 2-5?
Since you do not have a controlled system, how do you know that there are not places in your tank where the CO2 is higher still?

Look I'm not telling you that your fish are going to die or your plants will wilt. What I'm saying is that without control over your tank you don't know what is going on and it can be way out of control before you know it.
 

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Re: Please Read This

I don't get what is so complicated here...You ask a question and get a response.

I actaully am beginning to think you are getting more enjoyment with people calling you an idiot. What are you trying to prove!!! Please tell us all. Everyone is having success, success, success, without CO2 controllers. And yes, people are having success with them. CO2 controllers are not new technology at all! IF ANYTHING can solve this rediculous back and forth it is that the CO2 controller is a luxury, not a necessity.

But, I'm sure the dead horse will continue to be beaten, and beaten, and beaten, and beaten.
and beaten and beaten, I think its well on its way to being dogfood and or glue.

He hasn't answered mine yet. Anyway yeah I agree with you. It's a luxury.

I ran a DIY system for months without a drop checker or any sort of indication other than fish and my danio still spawn.
 

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Re: Please Read This

Thank you everyone for your posts!

I would like to reply to everyone and will try to do so but can you follow some rules about posting.

If you want to call me an idiot please link your post with my original post. That way I know you are talking to me.

If you want to comment on something that someone else says link to their post and I will ignore that post.

When the nest gets so deep that it doesn't appear on your screen it is better to start a new post and reference what you are commenting on.

BTW I expect that any new technology will meet with some resistance and I do not think this group is really too difficult.

Peace RTP
Ray - speaking of learning new things... You don't have to start a new thread every time the "nest" gets too "deep". :)confused:) You see that little button that says "last page"? Click it. Look at that, there are still posts there! In fact, if you were to look at some of the more popular sticky threads on here, some of them are 50+ pages long! So please, stop polluting the forums with the same junk. Being willfully ignorant and trying to create your own rules of forum use because you don't grasp the ones that exist is not a great way to get your point across.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Re: Please Read This

I don't get what is so complicated here...You ask a question and get a response.

I actaully am beginning to think you are getting more enjoyment with people calling you an idiot. What are you trying to prove!!! Please tell us all. Everyone is having success, success, success, without CO2 controllers. And yes, people are having success with them. CO2 controllers are not new technology at all! IF ANYTHING can solve this rediculous back and forth it is that the CO2 controller is a luxury, not a necessity.

But, I'm sure the dead horse will continue to be beaten, and beaten, and beaten, and beaten.
It makes you wonder? If a person doesn't know how to follow posting rules how they can grow plants!

Can you link to some pics of your tank? I'd like to see how this mind works.
 

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Re: Please Read This

It makes you wonder? If a person doesn't know how to follow posting rules how they can grow plants!

Can you link to some pics of your tank? I'd like to see how this mind works.
posting "rules" are not necessary if you can follow.

But here is my tank for the record. That is if you read any of my posts.

 

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Re: Why live with a wood burning stove?

Well first let me point out that if you assume that the original level was 2-5 then your estimate of the 10x increase is 20-50 not 20-35. Also how do you know that the original level was 2-5?
Since you do not have a controlled system, how do you know that there are not places in your tank where the CO2 is higher still?

Look I'm not telling you that your fish are going to die or your plants will wilt. What I'm saying is that without control over your tank you don't know what is going on and it can be way out of control before you know it.
YOU DON'T GET IT.

LOOK at the table I liked you to! The KH is THREE. LOOK!

There is variation, not every KH test kit and pH meter are perfectly precise. That is why the table gives you a range. And since we know CO2 is not the same in all areas of the tank, how are you controling your tank with just one pH meter (co2 controller)?...hmmm. How do you know you don't have areas in your tank with higher CO2!

But, my tank, as you say, is WAY out of control. If your saying that your CO2 controller is a safeguard against any kind of problems, that is just wrong. Your CO2 controller can malfuntion just as easily, probably more easily, as my needle valve.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Re: Please Read This

Yes you are right but I cannot find them easily and they are not referenced in order.

If you want to call me an idiot you have to do it in a way that I can easily respond to and that is in a linear mode.

Sorry, that is my rule. You have to live with it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Re: Why live with a wood burning stove?

Click on my ID there is an old pic of my tank there.

BTW I'm not trying for a garden with my tank. My tank is a biotype and I want it to look like a natural setting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Re: Why live with a wood burning stove?

YOU DON'T GET IT.

LOOK at the table I liked you to! The KH is THREE. LOOK!

There is variation, not every KH test kit and pH meter are perfectly precise. That is why the table gives you a range. And since we know CO2 is not the same in all areas of the tank, how are you controling your tank with just one pH meter (co2 controller)?...hmmm. How do you know you don't have areas in your tank with higher CO2!

But, my tank, as you say, is WAY out of control. If your saying that your CO2 controller is a safeguard against any kind of problems, that is just wrong. Your CO2 controller can malfuntion just as easily, probably more easily, as my needle valve.
Just keep on beating.
The temp in my house doesn't change much because I have a temp controller. Just like your temp. controller in your tank.

My wood burning stove doesn't have a controller so the temp is all over the place. Near the stove it is hot, near the window it is cold.

I don't need 10 temp controllers to control the temperature in one room I only need one.

A CO2 controller works the same way.

You know that pH measurement doesn't give you an accurate estimate of your CO2 level. How do you know that pH 7.3 in your tank is not 15 ppm?
 

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Re: Why live with a wood burning stove?

Since you do not have a controlled system, how do you know that there are not places in your tank where the CO2 is higher still?

Look I'm not telling you that your fish are going to die or your plants will wilt. What I'm saying is that without control over your tank you don't know what is going on and it can be way out of control before you know it.
I take issue with this idea. How do you know there aren't places in a tank with a controller in it that have higher co2 or lower? You can't honestly say you have probes in every cubic inch of your tanks, or that your probes swim around and look for co2 pockets.
 
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