[hoppycalif]

I started a ten gallon tank today, to be a non-CO2, moderate light tank, using zeolite sand and Leonardite (Diamond Black) substrate. My goal is primarily to see how well zeolite sand works as a substrate, secondarily to see how a Barr non-CO2 setup works. Zeolite Sand is sold as a swimming pool filter sand and consists of particles from about half a mm to 1.5 mm in diameter. Diamond Black is a proprietary brand of Leonardite granules, which is a very nutrient rich near-lignite coal material.

This is Diamond Black

I used 3 pounds of Diamond Black in the bottom of the tank, not washed, just poured in to make a layer about 1/2 inch thick.

The zeosand presented a bit of a problem. I have already found that it can make the water extremely cloudy if you just add water to it. That seems to be because it has quite a bit of dust in it, plus the less than 1 mm particles. To get around this I used a small spaghetti strainer to screen out the fines, which I added first on top of the Diamond Black. Then I mixed a layer of the fines plus about an equal amount of zeosand direct from the bag and made a layer about an inch thick of that. Finally, the screened out 1+ mm particles went on top, for another 1/2 inch layer, giving about 2 inches of zeosand in total.

Next, I added just enough water drained from my other tank, by my continuous water change system, to cover the substrate and added a couple of rocks and some Hygro "Porto Velho" and Lobelia cardinalis small form.

The white "plate" in the photo is the steamer basket from a "Healthy Choice Cafe Steamer" TV dinner, used to pour the water over to avoid disturbing the substrate - it works perfectly.

After adding Prime and a tsp of Equillibrium to the water (original GH is 3 dGH), I finished filling the tank started the HOB filter, and added the hood and light. The hood/light is a Perfecto unit, modified to use two CFL screw-in 15 watt bulbs, with reflectors.

Now we wait for the water to clear up, and soon we can see how zeosand works as a substrate for this type of tank.

I omitted adding mulm to the substrate just to see if zeosand will absorb any ammonia that shows up, and prevent early algae problems.

 

[spypet]

I look forward to sharing my zeosand
results with you in coming Months
I put a bit of plant tab at the roots.

zeosand's density is similar to SMS
but with the uniform 1mm grain size
of 3m Colorquartz T-Grade, and that
light green color kinda grows on you.

 

[Mr. Fish]

Your project is commin along good Hoppy, I'm starting my DIY
Stand tommrorow, so I'll be posting some pics and a journal as well....
Thanks for reminding me about the leveling feet...thats a must

 

[hoppycalif]

Almost 24 hours later, the water is a lot more clear, but still a bit cloudy. The zeosand is so light the water flow from the HOB filter, an AC 20 filter, causes ripples in the substrate, even with the flow turned down a bit.

 

[Homer_Simpson]

Thanks for sharing Hoppy, please keep us updated. I am looking forward to seeing how things work out for you. I am in the process of setting up a 5 gallon using a thin layer of peat, overlaid with a thin layer of Diamond Black Leonardite/some mulm mixed in and topped with onyx sand to a total of 1 inch as per Tom Barr's recommendation. It too will be a low light non c02 tank with mainly anubias, java fern, java moss and cryptocorne. Excel will be used for the carbon source.

I may set up another 3 gallon using laterite, seach chem fluorish tabs, and one inch Tahitian moon sand with the same types of plants for comparison purposes. This will be for work as the existing filtered fish bowl is too much trouble and I don't really like the idea of going into work daily to fertilize my plants and feed my peppered cory. Having to come in weekly while on vacation to change the water is also proving to be frustrating. So, luckily for George(the name of the 9 year old Peppered Cory catfish that resides in the fish bowl), George will be getting a new low maintenance home, with fine lush green(hopefully algae free) plants, and perhaps even added company as I may be able to add a oto and dwarf aquatic frog to the tank.

 

[hoppycalif]

Give George my best wishes!

Seriously, isn't it more fun to do this stuff when you can try new things like this? None of this would qualify as scientifically sound testing, but it certainly is suggestive as to how various things will work.

 

[Homer_Simpson]

Give George my best wishes!

Seriously, isn't it more fun to do this stuff when you can try new things like this? None of this would qualify as scientifically sound testing, but it certainly is suggestive as to how various things will work.

Lol, George says hi .

I couldn't agree more. I usually ask, ask, and ask some more, research and try something based on what others state has worked for them before I committ to anything. I am lucky that there are members on this forum such as yourself, gheitman, LeftC, BerthH, JohnN, George, etc., that are willing to freely share experiences, plus I know some people in my city that have successfully grown plants(with minimal algae issues) and have no problems sharing what they did.

Keep in mind that whether such experiments on a individual basis meet the scientific test of validity and reliability is really academic in real life terms. Most members(including me) do not have the financial resources to set up a whole bunch of tanks under the same conditions to see what happens; it is just not practical and financially feasable unless I won a lottery ticket and could buy all the equipment, tanks, and space to try it. If this was repeated on a grand scale with enough members using the same plants, same sized tank, same substrate, same fert dosing, same intensity/duration of lighting, same fish, and some common things were found, then those findings would have some scientific merit. Yeah, I know thinking that many members will choose to do this and share their findings is wishful thinking. But after the dust settles, while I have no problems sharing what worked for me, people can take that however they want, it doesn't matter. What matters is that it worked for me.

I am still awaiting delivery of the Onyx Sand and some other equipment. Once it all arrives, I will post pictures of George's old home and new home. I will be curious to compare notes.

Regards

 

[hoppycalif]

An update: It took less than two days for the water to clear up in my tank. This is about what I find with any substrate I use, so zeosand isn't any worse in that regards than other substrate materials. It is very light weight though, more so than is apparent by handling it. It tends to be displaced by water currents pretty easily, so it forms ripples in the sand after awhile. Soilmaster does this too, but I don't think it does it quite to this extent. And, the only flow is from the AC20 HOB filter.

Edit: more info.
Today I measured some water parameters: pH = 7.6+, KH = 2 dKH (tap water is the same), GH = 9 dGH, because of the Equillibrium I added. And, I added 4 guppies to the tank today to see how they do - they are the dumbest from my 45 gallon tank. I stuck a net in the water and they are the ones who swam into the net. I suppose that will skew my results!

 

[hoppycalif]

The water in this tank has been getting a brown haziness to it for the past 3 days, so today I did a 50% water change, dosed fertilizers and Equillibrium. I suspect the color and haze is from the Diamond Black, but I'm not sure. The plants don't show any signs of growth yet, but they still look very healthy.

 

[Homer_Simpson]

The water in this tank has been getting a brown haziness to it for the past 3 days, so today I did a 50% water change, dosed fertilizers and Equillibrium. I suspect the color and haze is from the Diamond Black, but I'm not sure. The plants don't show any signs of growth yet, but they still look very healthy.

I can see that. That is probably due to humic acids which is what Diamond Black is. A Seachem Purigen insert in your filter should take care of that. The only problem is that you could lose some of the algae control benefits from humic acids. Apparently when sunshine or full spectrum lighting hits the humic acids in the water, hydrogen peroxide is formed and some theorize that low levels of hydrogen peroxide are known to inhibit/prevent algae growth. Apparently this is the reason some theorize that Barley straw may work to keeps ponds clear of algae.
http://www.fishpondinfo.com/plants/barley.htm

However, in a low light tank, I don't know if the issue of algae would even matter much, and I don't know there would be sufficient light to spark the chemical reaction required for the conversion of humic acids to hydrogen peroxide.
Personally, I will be using a Seachem Purigen Insert in my filter when I run a similiar experiment. The benefits far outweigh any issues and water clarity from using Seachem Purigen is unbeatable unless you use a UVB sterilizer or a diatom filter.

 

[hoppycalif]

However, in a low light tank, I don't know if the issue of algae would even matter much, and I don't know there would be sufficient light to spark the chemical reaction required for the conversion of humic acids to hydrogen peroxide.
Personally, I will be using a Seachem Purigen Insert in my filter when I run a similiar experiment. The benefits far outweigh any issues and water clarity from using Seachem Purigen is unbeatable unless you use a UVB sterilizer or a diatom filter.

A problem with a ten gallon tank is figuring out what is "high light" and what is "low light". I suspect the light I have is on the high side, just by appearance. I don't mind that, and I tried to set it up so I was pretty sure I would get algae if it were an average tank. Now, if it stays free of algae or relatively free of it, I will be more confident that the substrate is the reason.

 

[hoppycalif]

I finally had to redo this tank. The brown haze just wouldn't go away, even with a Magnum H.O.B 250 running for a few hours. This time I removed the fish and plants and rocks. Scooped out most of the zeosand and washed it until the water was almost clear, which took a lot of water. Then replaced the sand and rocks and re-planted it. This time I used charcoal in the filter, both as a bio media and to try to remove any brown water that might show up again. Of course it is still cloudy from adding the water back, but in a few days it should clear up.

When I removed the plants, all were growing, if slowly, with some root development. No algae in sight anywhere.

 

[Homer_Simpson]

I finally had to redo this tank. The brown haze just wouldn't go away, even with a Magnum H.O.B 250 running for a few hours. This time I removed the fish and plants and rocks. Scooped out most of the zeosand and washed it until the water was almost clear, which took a lot of water. Then replaced the sand and rocks and re-planted it. This time I used charcoal in the filter, both as a bio media and to try to remove any brown water that might show up again. Of course it is still cloudy from adding the water back, but in a few days it should clear up.

When I removed the plants, all were growing, if slowly, with some root development. No algae in sight anywhere.

So was it the zeosand or Blackdiamond that was responsible for the brown haze? If it is the BlackDiamond, I wonder if it will continually color the water with the brown haze since humic acids are known to do this and it is pretty much 100% humic acids.

Keep us posted.

 

[hoppycalif]

So was it the zeosand or Blackdiamond that was responsible for the brown haze? If it is the BlackDiamond, I wonder if it will continually color the water with the brown haze since humic acids are known to do this and it is pretty much 100% humic acids.

Keep us posted.

Two things were happening. The haze was from the zeosand, which apparently is loaded with very fine dust. I can't see how this stuff could ever be used in a swimming pool sand filter, as it is intended to be, without it filling the pool with haze. Then, the brown color is clearly from the Diamond Black, but that may not last very long and the charcoal may remove it until it stops releasing it.

This is why I like doing something like this with a ten gallon tank and not my 45 gallon tank. It is pretty easy to change things, and the cost of the stuff for a small tank is pretty nominal. To be honest, I don't think this is going to work out, but I remain intrigued by the fact that there is no algae at all yet.

 

[Homer_Simpson]

That is really interesting. I am going to be using a Seachem purigen filter insert with my 5 gallon setup, so we will see how clear that keeps the water.

 

[Homer_Simpson]

Any updates Hoppy?? I just set up a 5 gallon in the same way using Seachem onyx sand instead of Zeosand. It started out cloudy but just as I speculated, hours after placing a Sechem Purigen filter bag in the HOB filter, the tank became crystal clear.

Here is a picture of the Tom Barr recommended 5 gallon low maintenance, low light non-C02 tank.

Filter: Aquaclear 150 with bag of Seachem matrix stone media, Seachem Purigen, and some floss media from the filter of an established tank.

Inhabitants: None yet, but once I can test the water and it tests for zero ammonia and nitrites I may add a dwarf aquatic frog or two and some shrimp(ghost?)

Substrate: As per Tom Barr, thin layer of garden peat moss, Black Diamond Leonardite, mulm from an established tank and topped with Seachem Onyx Sand.

Plants: Aponogenton(?crispus?), java fern, pygmy chain sword, Cryptocorne Bronze Wenditti,Anubias 'Congensis',Anubias barteri v. 'Nana'

Light: 10 watt Coral Life Coralmax full spectrum

Other than the fact that the some of the aponogenton leaves are melting, things don't look to bad.

Here is a picture of my Diana Walstead recommened Natural Planted Tank non c02 injected.

Filter: It is a marineland with its own built in filter so I left the built in biowheel filter running and placed a carbon filter insert to suck up some of the organics.

Soil: Green Leaf Topping soil from Home Depot, capped with Traction Sand. I had no crushed oyster shells but did have some calcium sulphate, so I mixed in a couple of teaspoons of the calcium sulphate into the soil. As my tap water has submarginal levels of calcium, I felt that this probably would not hurt and if anything would create a ideal environment for shrimp and snails that would be highly dependent on adequate calcium for their exoskeletons and shells.

Plants: Crypt, Dwarf Sag, pygmy chain sword, Cryptocorne Bronze Wenditti, Anubias 'Congensis',Anubias barteri v. 'Nana'
Light: 10 watt Coral Life Coralmax full spectrum

Other than the fact that some of the sag and pygmy sword leaves turning brown(which I believe would be expected given the fact that the plants are acclimitizing to new conditions) and water is still cloudy, things don't look too bad.

Now, the fun part, to let nature take its course and see what happens in both tanks.

 

[hoppycalif]

The water in my tank almost cleared up a couple of days ago, but it is again slightly hazy now. I added 5 guppies and a few MTS yesterday, which may be contributing to the haze by stirring the substrate a bit. I have been wondering if the sponge filter in the aquaclear ac20 filter is adequate for clearing up the water. I may try taking the sponge out and substituting a big handful of floss. Still no algae other than slight spots of BBA on the edges of a few leaves, probably from their original growing in my big tank.

I did get a little diatom algae for a couple of days, but when I added the guppies they immediately ate it. But, no green algae.

 

[Homer_Simpson]

The water in my tank almost cleared up a couple of days ago, but it is again slightly hazy now. I added 5 guppies and a few MTS yesterday, which may be contributing to the haze by stirring the substrate a bit. I have been wondering if the sponge filter in the aquaclear ac20 filter is adequate for clearing up the water. I may try taking the sponge out and substituting a big handful of floss. Still no algae other than slight spots of BBA on the edges of a few leaves, probably from their original growing in my big tank.

I did get a little diatom algae for a couple of days, but when I added the guppies they immediately ate it. But, no green algae.

Did you test your ammonia levels? I have tried a whole bunch of things in the past for clearing up cloudy or hazy water, including floss. I found nothing works better than Seachem Purigen.

Interestingly and surprisingly, I tested for ammonia. The Tom Barr tanks were through the roof, so I won't be adding any inhabitants into those just yet, or I may just chuck in a feeder fish to help get the cycling going as the plants alone don't see to be helping. The Diana Walstad tank appears to be cycling better. The ammonia levels are almost within normal parameters and both tanks were set up at the same time.

By the way this is George's Old Home(my 9 year old peppered cory catfish at work).

Below is a picture of George's New Tom Barr Type Low Tech Home. I haven't moved him into his new home as ammonia readings are still through the roof and the tank has not fully cycled.

 

[spypet]

homer, why do you keep posting unrelated material and tank shots on hoppy's thread ?

 

[Homer_Simpson]

...homer, why do you keep posting unrelated material

Well, for starters, Hoppy was discussing issues around cloudy and hazy water and I was speaking to him about what I found worked - seems relevant to what Hoppy stated. Hoppy set up a tank similar to the Tom Barr Type non C02 tank as I did - I posted what I discovered compared to what he saw - again, that seems relevant to me. He is setting up a low maintenance tank and I posted information about my low maintenance tanks.

....and tank shots on hoppy's thread ?

That would be the only thing that I would see as irrelevant. To that end, who are you to point or question what I should and should not post, are you a moderator??? The last time I checked you were not. Are you Hoppy incognito that posts by different nicks, again, the last time I checked you were not. So, you really have no business questioning what I post in Hoppy's thread. If the admin or moderator has issues with I post or if Hoppy himself finds what I post in this thread as irrelevant or questionable, I am sure they would have no problems pointing that out, but it is not your place to to do that you are not even a supporting member.

And since you are not the admin or a mod I found it ironic that you would post a comment that has even less relevance to this topic than what I posted. Private message functions exist for a reason. If you personally have issues with I post, you're better off private messaging me than than acting like a bully and wasting space in this thread to air your grievance.

Have a nice day