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Fighting green water. Simple cheap method.

196391 Views 199 Replies 81 Participants Last post by  ckostac, 
O
6
This method is free, it is natural (no chemicals). It is safe for fish and plants. It takes 5-8 days to completely get rid of green water (GW). It removes the cause of GW and some other algae. You don't need to stop dosing your fertilizer, you don't need to switch your lights off. You don't need to make any extra water changes, just proceed with your regular ones. Sounds like an ideal method to fight GW, maybe it is :)

The idea is taken from Russian aquarium forum at http://www.aqa.ru/forum/ and Wadim Lisovsky page at http://lis.aqa.ru/

OK, the magic word is WILLOW!

Here is my experience of using the willow in my 90G tank.
I took few branches of willow tree. 1-2 years old branches 1/2 inch in diameter and 30-40 inches long will work. I used smaller ones as I couldn't find that thick.
Put these branches into your tank and wait. In 3-5 days the willow will develop roots and water will start to clear at that time. 2-3 more days and you get a crystal clear water! At that time you should remove the willow or your plants will starve. That's all!

I think the willow can be also used for:
1. Fry tank.
2. Cichlid tank without plants.
3. For removing white bacterial cloudiness.
I haven't try these myself though. If anyone wants to try please let us know the result.

Here is my conversation with Nikolay during the experiment. And some pictures. Unfortunately I started taking pictures only on day 6.

*****************

"I don't think that the willow is a magic thing - it just sucks nutrients like crazy.
Nikolay"

"Sure, no magic. By my understanding the willow and some other trees consume NH3/NH4 (a major algae's food) much faster than aquatic plants. That helps to combat the cause of any algae bloom.
I have a UV sterilizer, I used it few times to combat GW, it helped. But I don't like that bacterial equilibrium blows up along with GW.
Well... I'll see in a few days if the willow really helps :)
On a side note, I add nitrates and phosphates to my tanks and it never entails a GW bloom. This particular tank was nitrate limited (0 reading of NO3), I think that shifted the balance.
Oleg"

"BGA is an algae that is closer to a bacteria. It is thought to develop as a result of low Nitrate. If that is true then maybe it makes sense to say that you and I may have bacterial bloom because my tank was very very low on Nitrate too.
In any case I am very frustrated that after using a big diatom, flocculant, UV, and blackouts that bacteria didn't even go away a little.
If the willow is indeed an ammonia sucking champion absorbing the smallest amount of ammonia as soon as it's released then I'm inclined to say that that is a great tool to use in the fight against algae.
But from what I read you need certain branches, not just any branch, right?
Nikolay"

"This morning I noticed a few new roots on some branches. And there is much less GW now!
Oleg"

"Very nice pictures. Keep taking pictures every day. That will make a great post and maybe an interesting discussion on APC and on Aquaria.ru too.
Nikolay"

"There are more roots this morning. And I can see the background pretty good. Note that this tank is 56cm wide.
Oleg"

"This is clearing up very very well. I wonder if these results can be repeated.
What about the white stuff that we think it's bacteria? Can you still see it?
Nikolay"

"Unfortunately I can still see that white stuff. Or maybe it is just a dolomite powder I added recently (it is a very fine powder).
Oleg"

"Do you mean diatom powder?

"Once I got some diatom powder that was too fine and the diatom filter couldn't run - the powder formed an impenetrable layer. But it never polluted the water.
Nikolay"

"Here is a picture I took this morning. The water is completely clear. I moved the willow branches to another corner of the tank and I will remove them from the tank in few days.
>Do you mean diatom powder?
No, I meant "dolomite". I use it sometimes to increase carbonate hardness (KH). It dissolves very slow. It also helps shrimps and snails - many times I saw them ate dolomite. You can read about dolomite here:
http://webmineral.com/data/Dolomite.shtml
The dolomite I use is in a form of a very fine powder so it actually clouds the water.
By the way I see neither white nor green cloudiness anymore.
I am very happy with the result. I encourage you to try the "willow method" if you ever get GW.
I believe it also can be used in a breading tank when fry actively feeding. Also I think it can be very useful in a cichlid tank.
Oleg"

"Please before you do anything else check the N and P of the tank water.
Nikolay"

"Nikolay, I am adding CaNO3 and KH2PO4 daily. So probably it will not tell us much if I check N and P now. What do you think?
Oleg"

"Tom Barr has been saying lately that Ammonia in very low levels is the cause of algae, not the excess of any other nutrient. Maybe the willow sucks Ammonia like nothing else in the world. We don't know if Ammonia causes the green water, but obviously adding NO3 and PO4 doesn't help it stay.
If Tom is right, and if the willow removes the small amounts of NH4 before they can cause algae, maybe it is logical to keep it in the tank at all times and at the same time to fertilize with NO3 and PO4 to feed the plants. I wonder if that could work in an extended period of time.
It sounds like the perfect filter - instead of bacteria convertinga Ammonia to NO2 and NO3 the willow removes the Ammonia very agressively, before anyone can use it. No accumulation of NO3 in the water!!!
Your results are very very interesting! Please post them on APC.
Nikolay"

">You have been adding NO3 and PO4 every day while trying to clean the green water?
Yes.
>Tom Barr has been saying lately that Ammonia in very low levels is the cause of algae, not the excess of any other nutrient.
I agree. Limiting plants in any nutrient plus raising ammonia level plus strong light = GW
>If Tom is right, and if the willow removes the small amounts of NH4 before they can cause algae, maybe it is logical to keep it in the tank at all times and at the same time to fertilize with NO3 and PO4 to feed the plants.
It seems to me that the willow consumes nutrients so quickly that it would be a waste to keep it with plants all the time.
I would try to keep it in a fry tank and in a cichlid tank.
Oleg"

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galettojm
2
Before introducing the willow branches:


8 days after inntroducing the willow branches:


Bye !

Juan
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Iceterran
I just grabbed some willow branches (weeping I think) Its cold up here so their dormant, should I pull the buds off? Thanks
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SKSuser
Iceterrain,
I believe that it would work better if you waited until the buds started to grow. Its worth a try, and please report back with your findings, but I think it'll work better if the branch isn't dormant. I think it works best with the new branches.
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galettojm
Iceterran said:
I just grabbed some willow branches (weeping I think) Its cold up here so their dormant, should I pull the buds off? Thanks
Click to expand...
Iceterran,

I never tried the method with dormant branches. Please let´s us know how it develops. I guess it is not advisable to pull the buds off.

Bye !

Juan
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Iceterran
I didn't pull the buds off, after about a week I noticed small roots, and the buds began to open. I pointed my lights in my room at the opening buds for about 12 hours on day 9, I came home to a CRYSTAL clear tank. This is magic.
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Jeff.:P:.
Thats awesome I'm glad it worked out for you.
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Q
I've read through this whole thread with great interest.

Back in the day, I used to use willow water to root cuttings for a high tech horticulture enterprise I had.

There are rooting hormones available, but this was an alternative that is organic.

The process was to take willow branches, twigs actually, and cut them into aprox 4" pieces and soak them in a pail of water for a couple weeks. I would use this water to start the cuttings in rockwool. Worked fantastic.

I suspect what is happening here with the GW is what one person suggested. The willow branches are adding this natural rooting hormone to the water. It not only causes the willow to root, but I suspect it adds to the root mass of the existing plants.

Perhaps the cases where this method didn't seem to work is because there were either little or no other plants in the tank.

I saw one picture posted claiming failure, and it didn't look like a lot of plants in the tank with the GW and willow. ???

If I had a fully planted tank with GW, I would be tempted to make the tea, and add some of that elixir to the tank for a couple weeks. The idea is to assist the plants in the tank to develope more roots, and thus add to their uptake ability.

Just a thought.

I will have to induce GW to try it out. :)
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hoppycalif
Plants absorb nutrients as well through the leaves as through the roots. So, growing more roots isn't much of an advantage to the plants, except for anchoring them. I think willow cuttings are just good at absorbing ammonia from the water, as a nutrient. It is, in my opinion, ammonia in the water, in very small quantities that causes green water.
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Q
hoppycalif said:
Plants absorb nutrients as well through the leaves as through the roots. So, growing more roots isn't much of an advantage to the plants, except for anchoring them. I think willow cuttings are just good at absorbing ammonia from the water, as a nutrient. It is, in my opinion, ammonia in the water, in very small quantities that causes green water.
Click to expand...
I agree except, don't plants absorb nutrients through leaves and roots, not one or the other?

Why bother with ammended substrates if not?

Just curious.
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hoppycalif
Yes, both roots and leaves are used by plants to get nutrients.
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jazzlvr123
very interesting read. I currently have a 9 watt UV sterilizer running on a 75 gallon tank that has been setup for like 4 days. and the water still isn't clear. maybe ill try this willow technique. I like the idea of adding diatom powder to a hot magnum turning it into a diatom filter. I may just do that. Vaughn, you still have that HOT magnum? hehe
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Q
Jazzlvr123, I am curious if it helps you out.

From my past experience, the willow has a natural hormone that forces/encourages root development.
I believe what is happening in clearing GW is that if there is a large plant mass already in the tank that
the hormone forces more roots to develop, perhaps absorbing the excess ammonia.

Once the spring hits here in NY, I am going to test this theory out, using willow water.
I believe what delays the reaction is that used as suggested, putting twigs/branches in the tank, we are making the willow water in the tank. It may be quicker to use one of the willow water recipies one finds on the web and dose the tank with that.

I would guess one would have to weigh the root mass of a control tank along with the treated tank to see if root development is happening, and then also see if GW is cleared too.

A start.
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hoppycalif
jazzlvr123 said:
very interesting read. I currently have a 9 watt UV sterilizer running on a 75 gallon tank that has been setup for like 4 days. and the water still isn't clear. maybe ill try this willow technique. I like the idea of adding diatom powder to a hot magnum turning it into a diatom filter. I may just do that. Vaughn, you still have that HOT magnum? hehe
Click to expand...
Yes, I still have the HOT magnum filter. I'm thinking about changing my 10 gallon tank from a non-CO2, non-Excel tank to something with an emersed lawn of glosso. Maybe there is a trade that would work well for both of us? I barely ever use the filter, so it doesn't have much value for me anymore.
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jazzlvr123
pm sent hoppy
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O
Hello everyone,

I read this thread today and couldnt help but join in the conversation.

In my fish room I have goldfish grow out tanks and betta breeding tanks and also tanks that I grow a few different aquatic plants, but no show tanks... yet. I have also began a project buidling aquarium lighting, so I have been doing some reading on light wavelength and photosynthesis.

In my goldfish tanks I purposely grow green water because it helps the goldfish with their growth and for this I use a general purpose CFL bulb which has a wavelength more in the red range ~600+nm. so all I do is drop some goldfish pellets in the water and 4-5 days later I have pea soup.

I have since moved my planted tank next to the goldfish tank to share the light so I didnt have to buy a new one. assuming that if it grew green algae so well, than my riccia and glosso would do well also. Well in a few days that tank has turned to pea soup also. but over at my betta tank, I use CFL bulbs that are branded "soft daylight" (blueish light prob 450 - 550nm) because bettas dont like the intense lighting. the lumens output is roughly the same since i use multiple bulbs on that one, but the water is crystal clear. and has never had any algae.

I have since started to use the "soft daylight" bulbs for my planted tank and the plants are doing fine and the greenwater has not come back ( I did a 90% water change, when I swapped lights).

so from my experience, green water has more to do with using a red light spectrum like HID lighting, incandescent, or sulfur bulbs that promote flowering.

This thread has prompted me to do some googling and if you look at the chart in the middle of this page that shows the wavelength response for phycocyanin you can see that it responds to the red range of light.

http://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/farabee/BIOBK/BioBookPS.html

this research article sums it up better

http://plankt.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/11/2/353

Im not going to make and direct recommendations as what you guys should do about your lighting because we all have different plants and fish in our tanks, and im sure that they will suffer some if not given the full spectrum of lighting in nature or close to it.

edit: also just wanted to add that this is a good active forum and I am learning alot from everyone that has posted. as for the willow solution, the salicylic acid excreted by the plant may have an effect on the cell wall of the algae causing to burst. not sure... prob need a chemist or biologist to look into it.
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hoppycalif
The idea that light spectrum is a major contributer to algae growth is testable. To do that you would first need to set up 2 or more identical tanks, prove to yourself that you can keep them all algae free and stable. Then switch one or two tanks to the light spectrum you want to test. If you get significant algae in those tanks, but not in the "control" tank, that suggests that the spectrum is a problem. But, if you don't get significant algae in either of those tanks, it is virtually certain that the spectrum is not a problem. Of course, repeating this test a few times is best, also. But, above all else, you first have to determine that you can keep multiple identical tanks algae free.

I would be delighted if you decide to try this! We all have things to learn about algae.
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jazzlvr123
hoppycalif said:
The idea that light spectrum is a major contributer to algae growth is testable. To do that you would first need to set up 2 or more identical tanks, prove to yourself that you can keep them all algae free and stable. Then switch one or two tanks to the light spectrum you want to test. If you get significant algae in those tanks, but not in the "control" tank, that suggests that the spectrum is a problem. But, if you don't get significant algae in either of those tanks, it is virtually certain that the spectrum is not a problem. Of course, repeating this test a few times is best, also. But, above all else, you first have to determine that you can keep multiple identical tanks algae free.

I would be delighted if you decide to try this! We all have things to learn about algae.
Click to expand...
yup, good idea tom barr is a big fan of creating a "control" tank to figure out algae issues for good reason, pretty much if you know how to induce the algae you subsequently know how to reduce it and or eliminate it all together. I highly doubt color temperature plays a role in algae growth
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O
I can probably do this test on a smaller scale with 5gallon buckets. Ill stop by the hardware store tonight for some lights and the pet store for some guppies and set it up.
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hoppycalif
Make sure the only significant difference in the lights is the spectrum, not the wattage or lumens, or the reflectors. This should be interesting.
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O
I have both 5gal buckets setup. Both tanks have one feeder goldfish, equal aeration and the fish are fed exactly 4 pellets of goldfish food twice a day.

There is a slight difference in the output of the bulbs, the hot bulb is 27watts and the cool bulb is 23 watts. Its not possible to match the wattage without building custom electrics for each. so these are the closest I could find. the lumens output is a difference of 300+ for the cooler bulb. Other than that the reflectors are the same and the time of exposure is the exactly the same ~16 hours a day.

Ill post pictures soon and wait for results in a few weeks.
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