I think LFS are a dying breed. You cannot compete price wise with the web or the big box stores. Your best bet would be to find a niche that LFS's don't fill such as a store that would be a one stop shop for aquascapers with a huge plant selection - unlike the crap they sell at LFS or the big box stores. If there was a LFS close to me that sold the same variety of plants that I can get from Aquabotanica or Arizona Aquatic at comparable prices then I would be happy. I wouldn't have to pay $50 for shipping and have to deal with buying more than I need just to meet minimum order dollar amount. I understand why the web stores do this but if I could get the same plants locally....that would be something!

As with any business venture a realistic business plan is a must. Don't dive in without one.

 

The only LFS for freshwater aquariums nearby closed a few years ago because they were so bad. Poor selection of unhealthy plants (some not even aquatic). They did have some unusual fish, but no care informatin for them. The employees were not knowledgeable about the fish, plants or products. While I wouldn't expect the cheapest prices for products, they were typically the highest prices by far for just your basic generic items.

What I would like is a neatly organized store with plants and fish well labeled, healthy, and with basic care information for them readily available. I'd also like it if the employees had a good general knowledge of the different ways to set up a tank. No looking at me like I'm insane because I have a soil layer and utilize that wondrous free light source, the sun. And carry quality items. I can get cheap stuff at the big box place. I'd like a way to check out (and purchase) some of the better quality tools, fixtures, etc. that I can currently only find online.

 

Ok guys...so what? You guys all shop online and NEVER go to an LFS of any kind? I appreciate the people that have already responded, but c'mon guys help us out here!

Irish

 

NO ripping off customers >_> That happened to me lately and I am still bad mouthing the place to everyone I find. Take in stuff for credit, get literally SHOVED out the door and then my stuff mysteriously vanishes without a trace before I can get any credit on my account. Over $250 worth of saltwater stuff gone without a trace and I can't do anything because the idiot decided to force me to leave without a receipt("I've got to be somewhere in 5 minutes! You could NOT have come at a worse time!!! I've got to go, NOW, hurry and get OUT!")

And that is after $500 that I spent there on equipment/livestock(they don't do any sorts of trades on equipment, though I sold what I can't use at least >.<) and 8 months of being offered a job there and recommending them to everyone I could find. Most of those people would tell them that I was shoving them to the store. Or the time I pulled 2" of algae(covering the bottom of a 5 gallon bucket) out of their planted(with algae maybe <_<) tank and got a half dead sprig of pond jenny and a wee bit of chain sword(3-4 plantlets) in return, or the . . . .

Sorry, didn't mean to vent ^^' Just make sure that he treats his customers well. Otherwise vindictiveness can be a pain

 

I would look around locally and see what's already out there as far as competition. Don't know where you are, but craigslist could give you an idea if there is a large aquatic market. Go incognito to LFS's there to get an idea what people are buying. If you frequent a certain LFS and know an employee well, they may even let you in back to look at setup's. This would be to your advantage, if their fish are sickly you know what NOT to do.
Offer more variety in plants and fish. I travel almost an hour to VA Beach to buy fish, plants, etc. when I want variety.

I plan on opening a LFS after retirement (can't come soon enough, ~9 more years!!). My plan is to have a nice setup in back to grow and reproduce my own plants and fish to save a little on pricing.
I also plan to offer online items, hardware and plants. Not live fish...not my plan anyway. That way you reach more of your market.

Please when you hire staff, make sure they have some knowledge of plants or fish, or both.

Hopefully this helps. Good luck to you and your friend on this business venture!!

 

To compete against the big pet stores you have to find your niche. I think planted aquariums are underserved by most pet stores. Having that as a focus would be a good way to go. The employees would all be knowledgeable about planted tanks and have their own at home, and the store would have a number of show tanks to show people just what is possible with a planted aquarium. The prices might be a little higher overall but there would be emphasis on quality.

 

I'm not sure it is possible to make a LFS, that caters to planted tank users, successful. The competition is brutal, when Petsmart sells so many cheap fish, and so few people are keeping planted tanks. Add to that the difficulty in keeping a big stock of plants in good shape to sell, without them growing beyond the stage where they look good. But, if someone wanted to take the risk I would be a regular customer of a store where I knew I could go buy a few of the not too common, but not rare plants, knowing they were healthy, where I could buy a good selection of good fertilizers and water treatment chemicals, such as Excel, Prime and other Seachem products, and, where I could buy a good variety of fish. If that store were to keep several planted tanks as displays showing what can be done, that would help too. And, of course I would want to be able to buy Flourite, Eco Complete, black quartz sand, etc. at prices competitive with online prices with the shipping costs added. I would not want to see that LFS featuring saltwater aquariums, where that section of the store overwhelmed the planted aquarium section.

 

mislabeling/no labeling of fish is the worst for me. i think there should be pictures and prices and brief descriptions of all the fish in a tank, so one knows what one is buying

 

To add to that, make sure the descriptions are Accurate! I hate going into a store and seeing a fish that grows 4' long+(*coughsiridescentsharkscoughs*) with a tag that says they get to a foot maximum and would LOVE to be in a 30 gallon tank for the rest of their lives.

 

I LOVE it when LFS's do that! Especially when female Celebes Rainbow's are mislabled and only $3, instead of the $7 for the males!

 

I hate to break up this party but does it matter what we want to see? I have a couple of friends that own stores, they rely on dry goods, primarily full setups as a primary source of income.

We aren't "most" fish store shoppers and while I'd love to see a store than had 70 tanks each with 20 or 30 superb specimens of each species of Cryptocoryne this is pretty much guarenteed to be a money loser, if even possible at all.

I suspect a more generic answer more appropriate of the sentiments here wold be "lots of plants" and I disagree there's no point in doing this in light of online vedors: I've never once impulse shopped online. (looks around) but, uh, I sure so impulse-shop from stores.

 

Of course it matters. All opinions matter. (Well...maybe not yours.... j/k) The idea behind the questioning is to see what people of all levels in this hobby like and dislike about their local LFS. Now obviously there will be a difference between what people here think and what actually gets done. Like for instance, my friend and I are not in Canada. We will have to compete with LFS and chain stores here. But what this does do is tell us what kinds of people (level of hobbyist) like certain things. Last I heard an LFS doesnt just cater to beginners, ect.

Irish

 

Hi. Im new so if i do anything wrong im sorry

If your friend going to open his own LFS these are the i things i like.

1. Alots of plants beginner to expert.
2. Red ramshorn snail or anything thing that eats alge and not plants.
3. Fish try to get nice grouping fish not the biggest ones you can find .
4. PRICE The price has to be right.

 

To be successful you will need to specialize. If he is into fresh water, go all out with fresh water and forget about salt for now at least. Make the planted tanks nice so the plants that are ordered in are healthy. Keep the live stock healthy. Have the tanks well lit but have lighting around the tanks somewhat dim so there is no glare. Go bare bottom or clean the tank a lot. Set the tanks up on a drip system where they are constantly getting a water change. At the store I worked at our losses dropped dramatically when we switched to that. Hire someone to do only maintenance on the tanks, preferably when the store is closed. Let the day time people feed through out the day . . customers like to see fish eat, but hire one or two people specifically to come in clean the tanks, either at slow times or when the store is closed. Quarantine new arrivals, don't sell sick fish and don't leave them on the floor. Have a back room with many tanks to move sick fish to. Keep the planted tanks free of dying and melting plants. Have basic hardware (filters, heaters, tanks) and also have stuff people who are really into the hobby would want. Buy your tanks in large amounts so you can go cheap. If you buy large amounts of tanks from perfecto you will get a deal and be able to price them fairly low. If you have cheap tanks this will get people into your store. Offer a deal, if they buy a tank and stand they get 10% off their filter, heater and thermometer . . . or they get a $10 gift certificate to be used only with live stock or something like that. Advertise, Advertise, Advertise. After working in an LFS for 6 years and being very closely involved in how it worked that is my advise.

 

A primary aquatic plant store would be very tough to make a profit.

There simply isn't enough people interested in aquatic plants in most areas of the country. The only place where it would be feasible would be in a major metropolitan area, like New York, Chicago, etc.

Where I live in Western Massachusetts, we have a few successful fish shops, but they make most of their money on tank setups and maintenance.

Last week I did a superpages.com seach of the word "aquarium", and was amazed to see 6-7 separate listing for saltwater aquarium set-ups. One was literally right down the street from me and I never knew the business existed. These are the types of business that are not open to the public, but make their money in setting up and maintaining salt water aquariums for businesses and offices.

The overhead for a public fish store is huge. Electricity, water, tanks, rent, taxes, insurance...

If part of their livestock dies, it's not only their profits out the door, but their investment as well.

 

No, an aquarium plant store will not do well, but a fresh water specialty store would. One that specilized in all fresh water things, including plants, african cichlids, south american cichlids, carried things not normally seen in the big chains, like different apistos, some killies, maybe a few wild type live bearers, along with all the normal stuff. Hardware would need to be ordered in major bulk to be able to compete with prices, the live stuff will get people into the store, then your sales employees need to sell hardgoods so a profit can actually be made. A very common "add on" sale I did was to sell a small $2-4 piece of driftwood with each pleco I sold. Along with regular hardware, carry things that other stores don't normally carry. Like some of the specialized equipment for planted aquariums, cichlid salts for the africans, discus cones and so on.

 

I wish you and your friend lots of luck with that venture! I agree with what a lot of others have said in that you need to find that niche and specialize in it. Whether or not it will be sufficient to make it profitable, I don't know. In my area, once the national chains came in, the lfs's have withered away to where only one remains. I once asked an lfs owner why she was closing down, and she said folks would come in with on-line ads and ask her to match the price. She said she couldn't even buy it herself for what the on-line folks were selling for, so she closed up.

Instead of an lfs, have you considered doing custom work? Something along the line of the Senskes. You could do tank maintenance or private set-ups. Up front investment would be minor comparatively. My 2 cents.

 

I too think some things would be nice to owning a LFS, or a restaurant with tanks...

I live in Southern California and have visited a lot of LFS in all directions and have settled on my favorite in Upland. Here is why it is my favorite-
* They try to get in a lot of rare fish instead of tons of the usual ones.
* The tanks are set up with plants, rocks and a veriaty of fish that make them pleasant to look at.
* The people working there know their stuff and can give advice.
* They carry R/O water so I gotta visit them every week.
* They keep a good selection of plants and have display tanks set up to show off a good aquascape.
* The tanks always look clean and the fish healthy.
* When I say I want a fish, they will order it for me when available.

I buy all my fish and some of my supplies. Unfortunately aquarium equipment is so much less on the net that if I need to make any larger purchases I buy online. For example Rena XP3 filters are like $170 in stores and like $110 or less online.

I give you my ideas for an ideal LSF.
* Have something that draws customers from far away to visit. I have seen a picture of an indoor pond or huge fish tank that would be cool.
* I would combine a Restaurant or something other to sell while people are looking at tanks. Even people without their own tanks may buy a drink or something else if they could spend time enjoying something nice to support the LSF.
* Relationship is most important. Everyone wants to feel special. Find ways to build on that relationship to care about how their tank is doing, and get them what they are interested in. Ideally it would be nice if the LSF sent out a weekly email on what new fish came in and letting people respond with what they would like to see. Parties at the LSF could be fun to bring people together to share their common interests.
* Some people I think would like to pay a little to see the fish fed, like the big ones with goldfish.
* Be nice if the LSF supply prices could be closer to the online prices....

 

I have a friend who has a pet store in Canada. He started a plant club that meets at the store. His plant business has more than trippled in the past few years. By giving free classes in freshwatter, salt, and aquatic and pond plants He has been able to expand the size of his store. I believe he also gives a small discount to the people when they purchas something after each class. I thought this was a pretty good Idea and you might want to try it.

I would also start setting up and servicing aquariums in businesses and homes. He makes pretty good business doing this. You proubly wont be able to compete with the common fish prices that the big box stores so think about a nice speciality fish selection....

Most of all keep it clean!!!! I know a lot of us hate to walk into a lfs and find dead fish, alge everywhere and constand ponds of watter on the floor. Soggy socks are not fun...lol

 

I would also start setting up and servicing aquariums in businesses and homes. He makes pretty good business doing this. You proubly wont be able to compete with the common fish prices that the big box stores so think about a nice speciality fish selection....

Im seeing a lot of this suggestion. This seems reasonable. There is no way that we couldnt beat the prices of any competitors around here. I do notice that the LFS and different aquarium service businesses have become lax in what services they offer and what they charge to do it. Mostly because noone is opening anything new around here.
I also notice that alot of people are saying that a specialty aquarium plant store would not work. While that is not the goal (purely plants), We think that if HEALTHY and attractive plants were offered in an area that previously had not seen breathtaking setups, that it would be something new and diverse for everyone to try that wanted to. This works very well when you can supply everything that would be needed. Even the doubters would have to admit that if you walked into a Petsmart and saw beautiful example of how the plants could be arranged in a tank, could buy those plants and all of the equipment needed to do the same in your tank, AND have some kind of knowledgeable friendly staff to answer all of your questions, you would have bought from them at least to try. If the advice was correct and you were able to grow plants....BAM instant MTS syndrome! :mrgreen:

Irish

 

ill just comment on my likes and dislikes of my LFS
likes
1.good healthy plants
2.they listen to me
3.they know you cant put an oscar with fancy guppies......
4.they will do large discounts on large purchases such as full set ups and often give me realy good deals due to me shopping there so much
dislikes
1.not enough dry good they have my filter but not the media and so on
2.they realy cant meet salt water needs although only being a fresh water store is probaly how they stay in business
3.labels are some times a bit off though i realy dont need it i know many others do

 

Here are some things I find in a successful LFS

-Brightly lit. There's a marked difference in atmosphere between a dark store and a well-lit store
-Knowledgeable and friendly staff. When the employees are outgoing and actually know what they're doing and what they're talking about, a good conversation keeps me in the store longer and I end up buying more.
-Availability of moderately uncommon fish ranging in the 2-5 dollar range. This applies mostly to freshwater. When the price of a single fish goes beyond 5 dollars, it's hard for freshwater people to bite the bullet.
-Availability of relevant dry goods. Since this is where the fish stores make most of their money, you'll probably be pricing highly, but if you do you might want to let it slip to the more knowledgeable customers that you're willing to haggle occasionally. Even if you lower the price slightly, the customer will still feel like they've done well for themselves. For the less informed customers, as harsh as it sounds, let them buy it at your sticker prices. We all buy a ton of crap everyday that's been overpriced anyway.
-Separate filtration for each tank, or making sure that all your fish are in good health. If any tank has a diseased fish and I see a centralized filtration system, I'm really turned off from buying any livestock. I guess you could still have a centralized filtration system if you can keep all the fish in superb condition though.
-Display tanks! When I see a well-cared-for/impressive display tank, I immediately form a positive opinion about the store. Stocking the tanks with fish you normally have for sale will also encourage customers to buy those bread-and-butter fish.

Most importantly..
-Location. Even if your store is amazing, the average Joe just won't come to your store if he has a hard time finding it. Make sure the store has exposure. More exposure means more people coming into your store. More people means more items and livestock bought!

Some quick negatives: not greeting a customer or showing them attention, floating fish, unclean store

 

-Display tanks! When I see a well-cared-for/impressive display tank, I immediately form a positive opinion about the store. Stocking the tanks with fish you normally have for sale will also encourage customers to buy those bread-and-butter fish.

i would 110% agree with that nothing better than a good well maintained tank right away to form an opinion on

 

Here is my 2 cents on this question.

# 1 Online Selection, Online shopping at 2 am, Online Shipping and Handling.
Pick up at local fish store following day or following week.
Pay service fee for being able to pick up live plants, fish or creatures at a store that knows how to quarantine and treat with Seachem Paraguard.

# 2 Pay at Store for Advice. Yes, I said pay for advice. You ask clerk question and get free answer - you get what you pay for. You ask owner of the store who may be a chemist or biologist or natural scientist you get much more in depth answer. At this point, I would be willing to pay the owner of the store for his time to get good advice. He or she is busy, and I would find it worthwhile to pay for their time and 'GOOD RELIABLE VALID ADVICE'.

# 3 Itemized billing. Putting all down in black and white. What you purchased online from where and how much you paid for it all with service fees from the local fish store. Separate item line for advice, who from, how much of their time and total cost for such advice.

The clerks get paid for doing what the owner of the store wants them to do. Owner of the store gets paid for running and managing the store and his or her time. Owner of the store gets paid for their time and services.

The local fish store is the local presence of everything you can read in a book and order online.

In upstate New York they advertise for diamond sellers in Vermont and how everything is written on the receipt including their profit of 30% which I guess for diamonds is cheap.

I don't mind donating $$ to the local fish store. But when the advice is bad, I could get better advice from a book or online and the fish are 2x to 3x the cost online and as Diana Walstad says may carry some disease, well - time for new concepts.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes. I wish you all the best.

 

There's a LFS in Calimesa (So. CA) where the owner had the idea of selling small 5-10 gal. tanks fully set up with Killies of varying kinds. This would include a bubble filter, light, substrate, piece of driftwood, Java moss, maybe a crypt or two--simple stuff. This setup would also come with detailed instructions on caring for the fish as well as breeding them. I never saw him do this concept, but it sounded like a good idea to me. Some killies are really beautiful, and placed near the cash register, and priced around $50-70, I may spring for something like this. Of course I'm not your average LFS customer, but then again...

My LFS has nice people, but mediocre fish selection at best. Their plant selection is even worse. I just set up a 75gal, and had to go to PetSmart for the plants The LFS has one tank with some Amazon swords, another with a few algae-laden bunch plants, and another with potted plants almost completely covered in algae. No display tanks for FW. Now their SW side is almost like a different store: Clean tanks, bright fish, a few well-kept display tanks. I guess there just isn't a market for FW planted tanks. Maybe sometime when I'm on vacation I'll offer to set one up for them with trimmings from my tank. I wonder if they would go for that?

I'm also into Rainbowfish. This store had one rainbowfish labled as "austrailian rainbow" which I doubt is correct, 2 M. praecox and 2 G. incicus. They are willing to, but their supplier doesn't carry much of a selection and couldn't get me the fish I wanted. I'm quite frustrated about the current situation, but I'll just have to be patient. I realize they are a specialty fish, so don't hold it too much against them. However, they didn't have any Otos, SAE's or Amano shrimp, but I was surprised to see some "algae eating shrimp" aka bumble bee shrimp. Meanwhile my algae grows. I'll probably have to order online to get what I want. But I wish I could give them my business.

OK, done with my rant for now

What I would like to see in a LFS:
-good selection of plants
-multiple well-kept planted show tanks
-healthy standard fish selection, with the ability to special order rarer species
-a few rare species of fish
-good FW shrimp selection
-equipment for planted tanks (lighting, CO2 systems, fertilizer, etc)
-knowledgeable, friendly staff

I think if my LFS actually went into FW planted tanks like they did SW, it would create a new customer base and increase their business.

 

I'm not sure it is possible to make a LFS, that caters to planted tank users, successful.

I agree. The problem with having a "niche" is you appeal to only a small number of people and it may not be enough to carry your business. In my area there might be six people who have experience with planted tanks. I don't think thats enough to keep a store in business. The most successful independent stores across the country, and there are many, appeal to the mass market and have several niches within that mass market that they do a good job of appealing to. They might specialize in rare cichlids, and reef, and freshwaer plants, and lizards and small animals... whatever. The broader base that you have, the more customers you attract. Have lots of niches.

The internet is different. People outside the internet think I am crazy. "You have a business doing what? You can make a living doing that?" On the internet I can appeal to enough people from all over the country. Locally, forget it.